Submitted by OrganicHair9951 t3_ygd7lk in Art
Comments
Emergency_Network_66 t1_iu8um7c wrote
I grew up with the same experience - you did a great job with this piece.
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8xfls wrote
thank you v much for sharing that, and words can’t express how sorry i am for what you’ve gone through. thank you for your kind words <3 i hope in all the chaos you must’ve gone through, you were able to find peace and heal. lots of love friend
Emergency_Network_66 t1_iu9n0lq wrote
That trauma still follows me around and affects a lot of things but I'm learning that what I grew up hearing and learning is a lie that allows abusers to have control. Thank you ❤❤
forever_young_59 t1_iu90396 wrote
I love it. Got it instantly and about to turn 63. Sadly things haven’t changed as much as we’d like to think. ❤️
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu9b1qd wrote
thank you for the kind words, pretty soul <3 so much work to be done. i hope i can live to see the day when that ball finally gets put in motion.
ScruffyWeeny42 t1_iu9tohy wrote
Beautiful piece, and totally understand that the title is based on personal experience, but the reason people are getting upset is because you are lumping all boys into the category of rapist, which is unfair to most.
When I was in college my buddy and I got mugged and robbed by a couple of black guys in an alley in Denver. That doesn't mean that I would publically insinuate that all black people are muggers.
I also DONT THINK you should change the title at all if you don't want to. It's polarizing, draws attention, catches eyes, and gets you views. That's art baby. I just want to provide context as to why you are getting some negativity. (But again, with art, IMO, all publicity is good publicity).
Cheers and have a good one!
Boleen t1_iu9vbyi wrote
“Boys will be boys” is a common saying that people say trying to excuse shitty behaviors.
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iua4011 wrote
well i already explained myself/the title in the comment you just responded to, and i understand where you’re coming from. however, the title isn’t me saying “boys will be boys” it’s the excuse my family member gave me when i told him i was raped. literally a man told me this. i’m not the one that “lumped all men into the rapist category”
a member of the male species did
trust me, i don’t like the title either. that’s the point. when i was told that, it not only disrespected me as a woman, but my experience as a rape victim as well. that’s also the reason for my inclusion on quotations. i feel like people shouldn’t be offended by something that doesn’t apply to them.
for the record, the point of the title was not to draw in the views in hopes of getting exposure, or however you put it. in fact, that’s a little insulting. it’s to make people as sick as i was when i was told that in response to me being raped. to draw attention on how we justify mens actions no matter the severity, all because they’re men. that’s bullshit in my opinion.
also thank you for your kind words on my piece :) v appreciative.
ScruffyWeeny42 t1_iuagzvv wrote
I totally get that the peice of shit that raped you and the peice of shit that justified it to your face are absolute filth, but that doesn't mean that all boys are, and that's how the title comes off to randos on reddit who don't know your personal experience.
Did not mean to offend, I was trying to say something along the lines of what you said:
>it’s to make people as sick as i was when i was told that in response to me being raped.
You explained it in a better way than I tried to, I just meant, your shocking and attention grabbing title isn't a bad thing, even if it harbors some negativity.
What about the title "Monsters will be Monsters"? Totally just a suggestion, no offense meant at all! Have a great day!
GuruGulabChhataree t1_iu8r3my wrote
When I took my beginner art classes mixed media work and projects hardly appealed to me, but you really showed me something different with this one, with nice technique, an important message and visuals that make you want to look at everything with attention.
Great work and sorry you got some reception that wasn’t what you were going for. Thanks for sharing and I hope you find some peace and happiness during your journey to heal :)
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8u8vx wrote
someone who took art academically… complimenting my technique ? 🥺🫡 excuse me while i literally DIE ! thank you so so much ! this is literally my 4th painting ever, so hearing that from someone who studied art is seriously so dope and completely reassuring. and that’s ok, i chose to post my work on the internet. can’t get mad at anyone for reacting. was just a little uncomfortable. but thank you again ! seriously so cool !
elhomerjas t1_iu81ny6 wrote
nice mash up of details and colors that blends well
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu82ehf wrote
thank you so much ! was worried it was a little too chaotic for the message, but this really reassured me :)
elhomerjas t1_iu899tj wrote
not at all , its perfectly delivered
Boleen t1_iu90po9 wrote
Powerful piece, excellently made. The cool toned coloration on areas of the female body reminds me of a photographic negative.
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu9bzla wrote
AH YES thank you thank you !! v much what i was going for. mid painting, and not at all making light of the subject by this, but law and order svu popped into my head and the opening credits display police negatives w blue and red (tints, undertones ? i think ?) and i really wanted to try and replicate that, both for the effect and to tie it in w the overall theme. thanks for pointing that out !!
Boleen t1_iu9u7gz wrote
Awesome, you’re very talented keep making art! The comments section demonstrates that some people have a lot of growing they need to do, you’ve handled them very well (I would have struggled staying so polite).
Snoo-48864 t1_iu94adh wrote
I’m so sorry people are complete idiots and assholes in the comments, but I think it is a great painting, and I think you’re really brave to share it with the world. it
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu9e1xt wrote
that’s ok, everyone’s entitled to their own opinions. aside from my personal reasoning for making it, it was meant to start a discussion and im really happy i could do that. thank you v much for taking the time to respond w such kindness. your words are appreciated in more ways than you know <3
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desertroseenvy t1_iubi0o0 wrote
Put this in public and a whole bunch of dudes are gonna not get the point and pretend to grope this naked body...
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Green_Diet_4271 t1_iu86lbp wrote
And I bet then you get mad because they don't touch you
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8bwcf wrote
well if that was the issue, i wouldn’t have made a piece abt… men… touching me… w out consent… i hope mama universe is kind to you. it appears you have bigger issues to resolve than worrying abt my relationship w men. sending you healing energy in abundance friend.
LacsapascaL t1_iu8fro0 wrote
But you do realise there’s a complete contradiction in your piece right? Obviously you’ve portrayed the female body as something to be sexually admired, and at the same time included a message rebuking the attention it will inevitably attract?
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8gina wrote
no, but i understand your interpretation. i didn’t sexualize her in any way. i simply painted a naked woman, which in my eyes is a beautiful depiction of divine femininity. the butterflies are a representation of innocence, and the book i tore pages out of and burned are a representation of loss of innocence. you can’t ever get those pages back; you can never regain innocence once it’s been taken. i believe my piece screams femininity, and boundary; awareness. if you took my painting a naked woman for objectification and sexualization, or that i was “tempting” you in doing so, despite my message written right next to it, then not to be blunt (or disrespectful) but that’s kind of the problem, right ?
LacsapascaL t1_iu8het9 wrote
I agree that the female body is a beautiful depiction of divine femininity. But it seems like you also recognise that it is more than a one sided image of innocence, it’s also an image of innocence violated, because as much as it is an object of divine femininity, it is also a sexual object, or at least it’s perceived as both. Also, with respect, what I think the piece screams, or at least what I hear from it is a childish wish to regain that innocence, but which as you yourself pointed out in the piece, can’t be regained once lost. So on that level I can appreciate the contradiction in the piece from an artistic perspective. The female body can’t be only pure or innocent or sexually neutral, because it is already a sexual object. So it’s just useful to recognise that balance.
Edit: that’s all to say that it’s not possible to have your cake and eat it too, if you want to display a naked female body, you also do not get to determine how people naturally react to it. But that definitely does not mean that men are entitled to violate a woman’s boundaries.
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8o205 wrote
well no, i wasn’t trying trying to determine how you view the naked female anatomy. i was pointing out how in me painting a naked female, you immediately sexualized it. you also stated that the female body “is a sexual object” … which is deeply troubling. a female in her naked form should never be automatically seen as a sexual object. that’s the problem. and the same goes for all genders. do you know the reason why the depiction of naked people, especially men, was so prevalent in art from ancient greece? to celebrate the human body. they used nudity to push a social normative. i use the same ideology in all my art.
LacsapascaL t1_iu8t8gs wrote
I also agree that there are ways to depict the human body generally, but the female body in this case, that is celebratory, rather than erotic or pornographic. The erotic being a more lofty means of depiction than the pornographic. But I struggle to imagine in what way the female form could be represented without it having an underlying connotation of sexuality.
LacsapascaL t1_iu8sbxx wrote
But I would dispute the idea that the female body is equivalent to the male body in terms of neutrality. The male body isn’t sexualised in the same way a female body is. But this is coming from an evolutionary perspective. Men have been primed by evolution to view the female body as inherently a sexual object. But object doesn’t always have to carry a negative connotation. It simply points to the fact that the response to the perception of a naked female body is an automatic response in men. And I would argue that it’s that same numinosity inherent in the female body that accounts for why you, I, and others, can elevate it into something more lofty (or divine, in your words). Because you recognise the power the female form has, and it just so happens that that power is rooted in its sexuality. The male body doesn’t carry that same weight for women as the female body does for men.
In short, my point is only that the female body is sexualised by default, and I don’t think it’s a good idea to wish that away, because, as much as there is a downside in the fact that predatory men aren’t inclined to recognise personal boundaries, or to see the person behind the flesh, it’s also the basis for our reproductive capacity.
I think what you’re getting at, and it’s a valid perspective, is that men should be better at controlling their innate responses to a naked woman. And I totally agree, but you should distinguish between men and predatory men, because not all men are inclined to violate women’s boundaries. But I don’t think it’s a good idea to try to strip away the sexual essence innate in the female form, in the name of preserving innocence.
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu971pu wrote
don’t see a need to make it known that i wasn’t talking abt all men when talking abt sexual deviancy, because for one i didn’t even say “all men are predatory”. that was you that determined that. and two, my objective when creating this wasn’t to protect the fragile emotions of men who may get offended by my art representing sexual assault. why ? because it’s not abt them. no malice, no vengeance, no hostility. its simply not abt them. it’s a representation of sexual deviants, and the victims of their crimes. giving us a voice so loud, vibrant, aggressive, and clear for the times we were robbed of words, amongst others. and if you take offense in that? then the issue is not for me to resolve. that is something you must resolve from within.
LacsapascaL t1_iu9cpdh wrote
No I’m not offended by it. And I’m not justifying people who take offence at it. I was just pointing out what I saw as a contradiction in the piece. I just don’t think it’s possible to eliminate sexuality from the perception of the female form. Do you believe it is?
And it sounds like for you this is more about empowering women who have been victims of predatory men, and to give them a voice, in which case more power to you. But I don’t think the way to do that is by changing the way the female body is perceived, although I would commend attempts to shift the perception of female beauty away from an emphasis on the material/fleshly (pornographic) and more toward the spiritual, but we don’t have many symbols in our culture of that aspect of the feminine, the divine aspect as you called it. The Virgin Mary in Christianity was such a symbol. Or Artemis, the Greek goddess of nature, who took a vow of chastity, and whose myth, btw, involved a man seeing her naked, and who was then turned into a deer (a symbol of the animal nature of man in the presence of the female body) by Artemis, and torn to shreds by dogs.
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu9f2wo wrote
why does a woman have to be celibate or a virgin in order for her body to not be sexualized ? and as a female, i’m most definitely going to be focused on how to change the way the female body is sexualized and objectified. i’m a woman. why would i want to live in a world where the normative is the over-sexualization of our naked anatomy? more so, why would i want to raise little girls in a world where they are perceived as nothing more than sex objects? and to answer your question, i think if we continue to have discussions like this, and continue pushing topics like “maybe it’s how we parent”, with time (loads of it) one day we will reach a point where the majority of the population that have children or are looking to be parents, will be well informed on topics such as “toxic masculinity”, dismantling the association of certain behaviors/interests/objects/etc.. w specific genders, victim blaming, normalizing sex talk/reinventing our sexual education system, etc.. and through that, those same morals and values will be instilled in our children, which is all it is. that part is so v crucial. and i believe in our future, that is most definitely possible.
LacsapascaL t1_iuao2af wrote
I agree, broadly, that our relationship with female sexuality needs to change. I do think however that what you’re pointing to is one form of excess in a excessively materialistic culture, which is an over emphasis on the body, particularly women’s bodies. It’s true that it’s hyper sexualised. But I think what you’re not getting is the fact that nothing needs to be done to the perception of the female body to make it ‘perceived sexually’ it just is naturally viewed that way. Where the excess is is in the fact that our culture has commodified it, and made it an object for cheap gratification. So if that’s what you’re pointing to then I totally agree with you. But is the solution not more modesty, or at the very least the reinstatement of chastity as a virtue in our society, at least pre marital chastity. Because I don’t see what else can be done to inculcate in men’s minds that sex and the female body isn’t something to be trivialised or cheapened with easy access, that it is rather something to be in awe of and something to make you reflect on whether you’re good enough to be worthy of her or her body. I think that’s where the focus needs to be. Because how else will you ‘change the way the female body is sexualised or objectified’? In a Culture where pornography is so easily acquired, and where there is an expectation that sex is a guarantee in the world of dating. These sorts of things are what damages the way men perceive women and women’s bodies.
In short, the enchantment doesn’t need to be taken away from female sexuality, what needs to change is our understanding of the seriousness of sex and the female body as something not to be trivialised or cheapened with easy access, on the part of men, and the need for more modesty on the part of women, to make men aware that they need to work hard to be worthy of women’s bodies.
I’m not sure exactly what you mean specifically by ‘the oversexualisation of our naked anatomy’? Can you expand on this to make sure I’m on the same page? And also what you mean by ‘the association of certain behaviours/objects/interests with certain genders’? I’m not sure how this is linked with sexuality. I’d also like to know what morals and values you would like to see instilled in children.
LacsapascaL t1_iuar2ze wrote
Also, would you want to eliminate sexuality from the perception of the female body?
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OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8gkqv wrote
just wanted to say thank you btw, great opportunity for discussion on something that i’m very passionate abt. was not at all trying to be rude in what i responded w, just pointing something out.
LacsapascaL t1_iu8gr8u wrote
No I appreciate your perspective. I don’t mean any disrespect either.
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OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8h3di wrote
i was thinking maybe resolving the bigger issue that plagues us on a societal level. because if we handled that one, women (and all other genders that suffered from sexual assault) such as myself wouldn’t have to go therapy as a result of… yea. thank you for your assessment though. restoring my faith in humanity w your concerns for my well being
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OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8k1nm wrote
ahhh yes, well if you took the time to read my response you would’ve seen that i literally stated “women (and all other genders that suffered from sexual assault). verbatim. but thanks for the concern pal, i hope whatever is troubling you subsides and you find peace of mind in your journey through healing as well.
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OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8kxtd wrote
no i said women first because i am a woman, and this piece is abt my experience (and acceptance) w my sexual assault. no one, especially those who can unfortunately relate to me on this topic, are viewed as an “afterthought” in my eyes. i don’t think like that. and not sure where you were going w that, insinuating i regurgitated your words despite my comment literally being before yours. i think imma hop off social media, not because my self security/mentality has been compromised, but rather my IQ after this v unnecessary conversation…
ThePyodeAmedha t1_iu9bb4e wrote
These people are trolls, don't bother wasting your words on them.
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OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iub2nhs wrote
i…. played the victim card……. by making a…… piece….. centralizing…….on my acceptance of…… my rape…… 🧍♀️………
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beefyjohan t1_iuaim6v wrote
You’re reading but you aren’t understanding. She’s trying to make a point here. She’s got the time and patience and kindness to handle your three comments with a lot of care and respect, but you aren’t reciprocating. So please take a moment and actually pay attention here. Like for real. Stop thinking for a second a listen: this interaction right here, the way you’re handling it is the problem. Not because you are an inherently flawed person but because that’s just a product of how you were brought up and the countless influences on your life. This is the problem. You don’t have to be a part of it, but right now you are. Okay? You’re being a dick.
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iub2z0k wrote
thank you v much for this. cannot even express how appreciative i am that you took the time to intervene on the madness. i thought maybe i was in need of realignment or something but this is really cool. i hope you have a great rest of your week friend
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beefyjohan t1_iuax92t wrote
Sure. You know what, that’s fine. I just hope that when you ever do feel like caring you reflect on this.
OrganicHair9951 OP t1_iu8jdox wrote
would just like to add context, even though i feel like i shouldn’t have to, but people are getting rather upset abt my work and it’s making me a lil uncomfy ngl 🥲. this isn’t supposed to be some feminist propaganda, although i have no issue in that as i am a feminist (not to be confused w extremist thank you). this is quite literally my way of accepting something that traumatized me on multiple levels. the title “boys will be boys” was literally SAID to ME by a family member of mine, along w “well what were you wearing” … for the people getting upset at me for painting abt my experiences, telling me i need psychological help because your feelings somehow got hurt in what i created, speaks volumes on issues that continue to plague us on a societal level. i wasn’t saying women only suffer from sexual assault, this isn’t a generalization. this is literally me trying to accept something that has happened to me…. hence the female body and title. it’s all… my… experience. literally so beyond confused as to how men are still getting offended in this when it’s clearly abt sexual assault??? are you a sexual deviant ? no ? then ???