Comments
Some-Ad-8706 t1_j6pa97b wrote
Because life begins at conception. If you don't want to be pregnant, then don't have sex. I know it's a hard concept to understand for people but it's the only method guaranteed to be 100% at preventing pregnancy.
I don't understand why people are pro choice.
welsh_nutter t1_j6pcurw wrote
why should people tell a woman what she should do with her body?
silverblaze92 t1_j6pb1vf wrote
Human personhood is linked to consciousness. A human who is brain dead is considered dead even if the body lives on. By extension then, life begins with the development of consciousness, which requires the development of certain brain structures around the 26th week iirc
Some-Ad-8706 t1_j6pbchw wrote
Ok and abortionists want to abort babies up until they come out of their mother so what's your point? Abortion is wrong.
UKKasha2020 t1_j6pc1in wrote
No one wants to do that.
Babies aren't aborted. In most places where abortion is legal its only permitted up to a certain point - eg. in the UK its under 24 weeks, typically the vast majority are carried out within the first few weeks.
[deleted] t1_j6pcbbx wrote
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silverblaze92 t1_j6pf51r wrote
Not as a form of birth control. For when it's medically necessary. Because no one who wants to end a pregnancy simply because they won't want a kid is going to wait that long if they have access to abortion sooner.
UKKasha2020 t1_j6pbi7b wrote
People have sex, it's a fundamentalmental drive we have as living beings - that doesn't have to mean giving up your basic human rights in order to be forced to continue a pregnancy against your will, regardless of the risk to you or others.
Then there's rape, sexual abuse, and of course many people DO want to be pregnant but have to seek abortion due to change in circumstances, health reasons, or due to miscarriage.
Your beliefs shouldn't be forced upon anyone.
[deleted] t1_j6pbo1m wrote
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BoyfriendOfChrist t1_j6pd8p3 wrote
Life is an ongoing process that started about 4 billion years ago
>I don't understand why people are pro choice.
Do you think a rape victim should have to carry and give birth to her rapist's baby? Because that seems morally indefensible to me
[deleted] t1_j6pgpub wrote
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kirixen t1_j6payjm wrote
We're pro-choice because you're not allowed to be inside a woman's body without her consent. Your age, gestational or otherwise, is irrelevant.
Wearing a short skirt is not consent to have sex.
Parking your car in a shitty neighborhood is not consent to have your car broken into.
Driving your car is not consent to be carjacked.
Sex is not consent to carry another human for 10 months.
What part of this don't you get?
ThatOtherGuy_CA t1_j6pbutu wrote
As entertaining as I find this position, I have a hard time believing that “abortion as self defence” would hold up under any legal scrutiny.
kirixen t1_j6pjan5 wrote
Why not?
Do fetuses get extra rights to violate bodily autonomy?
Some-Ad-8706 t1_j6pb844 wrote
Literally don't have sex and you will be fine. What's so hard to understand that fetuses are alive? They can feel, sense, touch etc. You think you deserve to kill other human beings because you made poor unplanned decisions?
UKKasha2020 t1_j6pckby wrote
No ones denying that a fetus is alive, however it can't very well feel, sense, or touch at the point in development when it's likely to be aborted.
Not all abortions are due to unplanned decisions, but even those which are...you think you deserve to let people die, put their health at risk, deny women equality, force people to continue a pregnancy against their will regardless of how severely it could impact their mental health or life, not to mention the feel, sense, and touch of actual children who suffer when born to families who don't want them?
[deleted] t1_j6pdb90 wrote
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kirixen t1_j6pg4bm wrote
I think I deserve to kill another person if that person is violating my rights.
My_unfinished_userna t1_j6pb2fp wrote
That’s a fair point and I agree with that but what are you thoughts on a case like rape? Do you think that abortion can be used in that case or are you completely against it?
Some-Ad-8706 t1_j6pbgg6 wrote
Only if the fetus is dead should abortion be allowed.
silverblaze92 t1_j6pc2r2 wrote
And what about an ectopic pregnancy?
[deleted] t1_j6pcej6 wrote
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Zealousideal-Ad4610 t1_j6pbjhq wrote
It’s pro-murder not “pro-choice” let’s drop the disgusting euphemisms that make animals feel comfortable talking about it
HavanaPajamaParty t1_j6pc0bd wrote
To be murder it has to be unlawful. Abortion isn't illegal in most of the developed world therefore it's not murder.
Zealousideal-Ad4610 t1_j6pci6n wrote
So it’s murder in Texas but not in California? I know legally speaking sure, but if you depend on corrupt politicians from either side to define important moral values you are in for some big surprises when you open up a history book for the first time.
HavanaPajamaParty t1_j6pcspo wrote
Murder is a legal term and it has a legal definition. It doesn't care about your opinions or morals.
Call it "killing" if you want, but it's not murder no matter how badly you want it to be.
Zealousideal-Ad4610 t1_j6ph34o wrote
If you are defining it legally only then you can define humans as property in many nations even today. Also, in that case, I assume you would agree that abortion is not a right because legally speaking the Supreme Court says so?
UKKasha2020 t1_j6pd36h wrote
It's not murder.
Pro-choice isn't pro-abortion either, continuing a pregnancy to term is one option in the 'choice'.
[deleted] t1_j6pidsm wrote
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[deleted] t1_j6pbwlr wrote
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Leftistgenius t1_j6pa31f wrote
They believe that taking the life of something that has the potential to become a human is not right. It does not matter if that "person" may have a bad life or be a burden to its mother.
Zealousideal-Ad4610 t1_j6pbtrw wrote
Exactly, just like we can’t murder everyone in prison because they are a burden on society and live a bad life and even worse than innocent pre born children, have actually committed crimes. You still can’t choose to end life because it is more convenient for you.
[deleted] t1_j6pa7gk wrote
People who don't care about woman rights
54fdd t1_j6paaw7 wrote
Abortion is not a right
silverblaze92 t1_j6paijj wrote
Bodily autonomy is.
54fdd t1_j6pak9e wrote
That's not bodily autonomy
silverblaze92 t1_j6pb2yo wrote
Why not?
UKKasha2020 t1_j6pcp23 wrote
Of course it is; Bodily autonomy is the right to governance over one's own body.
[deleted] t1_j6paftd wrote
Yeah but I believe they should have the choice
HavanaPajamaParty t1_j6pakg7 wrote
>"The enjoyment of the highest attainable standard of health is one of the fundamental rights of every human being without distinction of race, religion, political belief, economic or social condition”
>"The right to health also means that everyone should be entitled to control their own health and body, including having access to sexual and reproductive information and services, free from violence and discrimination"
https://www.who.int/news-room/commentaries/detail/health-is-a-fundamental-human-right
UKKasha2020 t1_j6pauh9 wrote
Yes it is.
The right to safe and legal abortion is a fundamental human right protected under numerous international and regional human rights treaties and national-level constitutions around the world. Abortion falls under bodily autonomy, healthcare, rights to life, liberty, privacy, equality, also freedom from cruel treatment.
kirixen t1_j6palw7 wrote
Self defense is a right.
You're not allowed to be inside a woman's body without her consent. Your age, gestational or otherwise, is irrelevant.
Zealousideal-Ad4610 t1_j6pbefn wrote
The consent was given when she had sex, unless it was rape, this argument falls flat on its face. That’s like me committing a crime and then saying I don’t consent to handcuffs anymore. Sure under most circumstances no one can legally handcuff me, but if I’ve committed a crime that directly resulted in my detention then it doesn’t matter if I want to throw a fit, reality exists.
kirixen t1_j6pg021 wrote
No it wasn't.
Why would consent to activity A be considered consent to activity B?
Zealousideal-Ad4610 t1_j6pgq3m wrote
Because actions have consequences? How old are you? How do you not understand this? If you drink a lot, you are by proxy consenting to being drunk you can’t just wish it not to happen it is a biological reality. If you have sex (regardless of protective measures) you are consenting to the possibility of getting pregnant. You can’t pretend it’s totally separate when one is totally and completely dependent on the other to occur.
HavanaPajamaParty t1_j6phg6j wrote
If I get alcohol poisoning as a direct result of my own autonomous choice to drink, will the hospital refuse to treat me because "Actions have consequences; you shouldn't have drank if you didn't want this."
Zealousideal-Ad4610 t1_j6pia5u wrote
No, they can save your life, but pregnancy in and of itself is not generally lethal also, there is no innocent child at stake so that’s not even close to being a realistic analogy.
Abortion would be more analogous to you choosing to drive after you’ve become drunk with the specific intent to kill somebody because they get on your nerves. And then saying you never consented to getting drunk so even though you made every faulty and stupid decision leading up to that point it isn’t your fault.
HavanaPajamaParty t1_j6pj11q wrote
Then that's still not an apt analogy because the desire to consume alcohol isn't a biological urge.
And I and many others don't believe a fertilized egg is an "innocent child" so you can cut the plea to emotion. That's just your personal beliefs.
Zealousideal-Ad4610 t1_j6pk2v4 wrote
Ironic, why do you think that biological urge exists?
Regardless the initial reason for engaging doesn’t make any difference so long as it was consensual. So uhh, yea you’re wrong. They are both avoidable.
Also, I don’t have to be an idiot along with you or anyone else who wants to cover their eyes and pretend that a human life with potential is not inherently an innocent child. Not a plea to emotion, a recognition of reality.
[deleted] t1_j6pdtou wrote
Better than pro death
DenyScience t1_j6pa9ux wrote
I encourage more humans existing.
kirixen t1_j6pb02r wrote
Why?
DenyScience t1_j6pb561 wrote
Because I'm on team human.
Emiliootjee t1_j6pcdbs wrote
So what happens when there are so many humans that there is no longer enough food to sustain everyone?
DenyScience t1_j6pco20 wrote
It creates pressure to create more food and advance technology to overcome the issue.
Emiliootjee t1_j6pdbsz wrote
And when the world can no longer sustain the amount of humans?
DenyScience t1_j6pdsiv wrote
Then we'll get pressure to expand off world and we'll become a space-faring species.
Emiliootjee t1_j6pektk wrote
And if were not ready for that?
DenyScience t1_j6pf50u wrote
Then we'd still be in a better position for humans than the anti-life position that is presented as an alternative.
Emiliootjee t1_j6pfz23 wrote
So having people start dying off because theres too many of us and not enough food and housing and basic necessities is better than allowing abortions to people who dont want a child but unfortunately got pregnant?
silverblaze92 t1_j6pag2x wrote
Ostensibly it's because they believe that a person begins at conception so abortion is ending a person and therefore murder
Makato_Yuki1523 t1_j6papus wrote
Not exactly Pro-Life. Personally I'm against abortion because I do believe that eventually the collection of cells will eventually become a living being, but I don't believe the government should have a right to tell anyone what they can and can't do with their body, especially since I don't believe you're endowed with a soul until you have been born.
Zealousideal-Ad4610 t1_j6pc5zo wrote
That’s interesting, so let’s say you were gonna be born vaginally and last minute it’s a c-section, does the oxygen magically cause a souls to spontaneously occur? What if you are a premie? Does the soul not show up till later? I’m honestly curious as to where the soul comes from.
TheAngloLithuanian t1_j6pc95j wrote
Simple, because I wouldn't let someone kill a newborn so why would I let them kill a fetus? Like it or not, in the end that fetus IS a baby.
And for people who say "what id the baby will grow up in poverty", that isn't an excuse, because that that logic you could murder little kids of poor families to save them the burden of growing up in poverty too.
Offer to the chance for the average poor child or adult to kill themselves and see how many take you up on that offer. Not much, why? Because most people want to live. It shouldn't be your choice to decide whether or not they should live based on what their ecomomic situation could be.
Although I am pro-abortion IF the baby a high chance of killing the mother.
UKKasha2020 t1_j6pcvoc wrote
>fetus IS a baby.
It's a fetus.
Thus why it's called a fetus.
Well, except in most cases it's an embryo.
TheAngloLithuanian t1_j6pe1fe wrote
>It's a fetus.
>Thus why it's called a fetus.
A fetus is an unborn baby. After a few months/weeks/days (Or whatever stage it is at) when it pops out of that womb its a baby.
Ans what stage in your eyes does a fetus become a baby? When its head gets out of the womb? When is cord is cut? Like it or not, killing a fetus/embryo is literally just killing a baby in all but name.
UKKasha2020 t1_j6phqi3 wrote
In my eyes?
No, I'm referring to biological classifications, this isn't beliefs or opinions.
Science doesn't care about what either of us think, but I'm referring to fact while you're trying to use emotive language to manipulate; as if those who trust women with their own lives/bodies/families support killing babies. It's dishonest to compare what's aborted, typically a >12 week old fetus and often not even big enough to be seen when passed, to a living breathing feeling human being.
As is often said...if only pro-life cared as much about living breathing human beings, actual babies or their parents, as the 'unborn babies' aka a collection of cells without consciousness or feeling.
TheAngloLithuanian t1_j6piqcj wrote
Once again, give me the exact time you (Or science) says a fetus becomes a baby.
Oh wait! You can't. Because there is no clear answer.
>It's dishonest to compare what's aborted, typically a >12 week old fetus and often not even big enough to be seen when passed, to a living breathing feeling human being.
No its not at all. The 12 week old fetus IS a human being. Just not developed yet. No amount of classification or emotive language from either side will change that.
>As is often said...if only pro-life cared as much about living breathing human beings, actual babies or their parents, as the 'unborn babies'
I care about both of them equally. I don't support murdering toddler just the same as I don't support murdering a unborn child.
>aka a collection of cells without consciousness or feeling.
...So its ok to murder someone as long as they haven't experienced life yet? ... Take a good moment and think about just how fucked up that logic is.
Tistoer t1_j6pakmw wrote
Life is good