> devices with 1950’s technology.

I think it’s worth pointing out that this a good sign that compared with modern equivalents they suffered from being some combination of expensive, large, noisy, inefficient, limited functionality, prone to failure, etc etc.

Consumer white goods have always been designed to hit a price point with just enough quality and durability that customer complaints and warranty costs stay at acceptable levels. As production techniques, technologies and material science improved over the decades those price points have come way down.

In the fifties a counter top microwave would have cost you $500, which is about $5,500 nowadays. At that price it would have to have been a buy it for life purchase. Now you can buy a microwave for $50(!), one-hundredth of the original price, and it still lasts about as long.

I suspect that there aren’t many people who develop the same “feeling” for their washing machine as they do for their leather wallet or their Opinel knife, and so there’s less emphasis on long life in white goods, though as you point out, a few manufacturers do still push that aspect.

If I had a strong feeling for that aspect, I’d generally look at German brands who still do a lot of their manufacture in house.

Edit: just had a look. My dishwasher is Siemens, the cooker is AEG, the washing machine is LG, and the fridge is some budget brand, which all gives a clue as to their relative priority in this household!

The fridge one is what gets me. Is it possible to buy a high quality fridge these days? Or is it better to find a vintage pre “cheap fridge era” - I forget what year this is when essentially all of them went to a design that’s meant to wear out. But then I think you have to suck it up and defrost the freezer.

A proper install and maintenance is huge for longevity of furnaces, the duct work it connects to plays a large roll, undersized duct, not changing filters, lack of maintenance, etc all chip away at the lifespan of the furnace. A furnace can even be too big for your house. You get what you pay for with HVAC, good contractors will sell better equipment and stand behind it in the long run, the local contractor is the make or break for buying quality.

Planned Obsolecence

Liebherr fridges from ProfiLine are decent. They are designed to work in horeca/professional environment.

I did a lot of searching and decided on a basic Whirlpool fridge. No fancy options or addons, lots of space, and its either cold or freezing. No special zones or what have you. 800$ on sale

I'll pay 1600 for one that lasts 2x as long and 2400 for one that lasts 3x as long, but one such doesnt exist. People eho have been selling appliances or working with appliances for decades say even the highest quality fridges can only be guaranteed max 10 years these days.

Fair point and I understand where you are coming from, but there is still unmet demand so you have to ask what the "free" market is really doing here. As a previous commentor said, 6-10 years is too soon. Its a big decision, the fridge handles may need to be removed, the doors from the frame to move it in and out, ai'd like to make the choice as infrequently as possible. If I'm a landlord that includes appliances these choices become WAY unacceptable. 6-10 years is not what the consumer asked for, just like nobody wanted all phone manufacturers to collectively and simultaneously deicide that they would remove microSD card slots so they could price gouge flash storage, unanimously, oligarchically, and contrary to a truly free market, removing the slot from every single example of leading phones. The same thing is going on here. The landfills are becoming packed with appliances.

The market is responding as it normally does: by focusing its efforts on where the profits are. Fridges last long enough to keep nearly every consumer from worrying about this factor when making their buying decisions.

The fact that you don’t like the outcome of the workings of the free market doesn’t mean there’s a massive conspiracy against you, just that you don’t represent a profitable market segment.

If what you say is true, you have found a hole in the market and should exploit it by opening your own refrigerator factory. But you aren't going to do that are you?

You are making assumptions based on zero evidence. Gather the data....then make conclusions, don't be a boomer and make a conclusion sans data. Focus on one topic. Gather data. Summarize what the data shows.

I'm willing to bet a data->conclusion model will differ from your current conclusion->no data model.

So I'm an engineer, and I've worked on consumer devices, and I'm going to tell you the secret here:

Take any of those "long-lasting" appliances from the 50s. What did it cost? How much is that in today's money? Here's one reference to look at. Plug them into a cpi calculator and see for yourself.

That $21 toaster from 1951 is the equivalent of $230 today. How about that $329 fridge? That's over $3k today.

Does the modern equivalent you are using for comparison cost the same with the same features? No? Well then it's no different than comparing chinese-made junk from the dollar store to premium stuff at a high-end store. Of course the cheap junk is going to look worse.

This is the basic problem: most people want their stuff cheap. They want lots of features. Well, when you cut price and add features, corners have to be cut somewhere, and it's going to come out of materials and build quality.

You can absolutely find good quality stuff that will last decades. You have to completely recalibrate what you think is reasonable to pay for an appliance though: Miele dishwashers have been known to easily go 20+ years. Their most basic, no-frills model *starts* at $1.3k. Some of their higher-end models go over $4k. Want a toaster that lasts decades? Well you're looking at $200+, but you can absolutely still find them once you know what you're looking for.

Here, I'll even use a clear example. Let's take a look at washing machines. Here's some Samsung piece of shit that will fall apart within a few years but has every whiz-bang feature you can imagine that you will use exactly once and never touch again. Here's a commercial washing machine that has nothing more than two simple dials and a button that costs more, but will last you until you die. But consumers almost exclusively want the shiny box with all the features, because people tend to shop by looking for the most features per $, not for longevity. So that's why most stuff you buy at the store is junk.

As soon as you start expanding your budget for an appliance but not looking for gimmicky features, suddenly you can find lots of stuff that lasts a long time.

This isn't actually a thing.

Source: I'm an engineer who has worked on consumer devices. I also know dozens of engineers in other similar industries who would say the same thing.

I have a kenmore dishwasher from 1998. It might have cost $1300 in today's dollars but 10,000 in today's dollars isnt going to garantee 24 years of operation from any appliance. Thats the qunadary. Short of manufacturing your own appliance soup to nuts, NO budget can satisfy an appetite for longevity, because there arent any more. I agree the average consumer wants junk with features, so thats the end all be all. Its like listening to pop music all day. You cant just scan the radio and find good stuff from lesser-knowns. My purpose here is to propose something at os at work here other than the free market and I want to know what answering accordingly looks like.

Also the "last until you die" example doesnt even last weeks for a qaurter of the people writing the reviews. Yes, who knows with that, maybe home depots shipping company sucks.

I withdraw myself.

I still really appreciate this community, I need honesty, not echochambers

>10,000 in today's dollars isnt going to garantee 24 years of operation from any appliance.

I never said it did. What I'm saying is that quality costs money. You will not be able to make a durable appliance at bargain basement prices and that has always been true. You have to expect to spend more money than most people think is reasonable for fewer features.

>Short of manufacturing your own appliance soup to nuts, NO budget can satisfy an appetite for longevity, because there arent any more

Again, you are just not looking int he right spots. I just posted you a washing machine that will easily last 20+ years. I know because I have the same commercial washing machine from 2003 that is still going fine despite multiple loads per day for almost two decades. Laundromats aren't in the business of buying junk and constantly replacing it.

You can find a BIFL version for any appliance you are looking for.

I've been on the design side of this stuff. I know how it works. This is 100% consumer-driven. Consumers don't want longevity for the most part, and the ones that do go to the premium brands or versions for it.

I appreciate that. This a started with finding a good refrigerator I want to last 20 years. I dont mind spending the extra money. I was just amazed at the examples from 80 years ago still in operation and how advancement meant we had to move backwards to satisfy the bells and whistles crowd, which has essentially taken over. But i agree, if your washer lasted 20 years and it has all these bad reviews then theres a great chance im not seeing the forest through the trees in my search for a fridge that lasts.
I've had people in the industry tell me Liebherr and Miele and Bosch fridges are still 6-10 years. This was the poison pill that started this.

I should add I own some apartments so im asking for the included appliances as well

Most reviews are junk. People don't usually report the status of their appliance 10 years later. Some stuff breaks during shipment or breaks within the warranty period and that's normal. What's important is that the initial breakages are fixed and then it lasts after that.

Maybe this particular commercial model has gone down in value? It's possible, but their customers keep records and metrics on this kind of stuff, and would quickly notice and it would sink the whole line. Businesses don't usually like to buy junk appliances for situations like this.

FWIW, there *may* be some effects from shortages going on right now. Some factories have relaxed quality assurance just to get stuff out because the shortages are getting so bad. So admittedly right now might not be the time to buy unless you are in dire need of something.

>I've had people in the industry tell me Liebherr and Miele and Bosch fridges are still 6-10 years.

The marketshare for these appliances is so small that anecdotal information about them can skew pretty hard. I've also noticed a mindset of "ahhh they're all the same no matter the price", which isn't really true, but I can understand why they think that. It's similar to how people think planned obsolescence is standard company practice: it's absolutely not, but given they don't have all the context or understand the decision-making involved, it's not surprising they think that it is.

You've given me hope in this thread when I thought I was going to walk away empty-handed.
Thank you boilerbuttslut, haha wtf is that name

Well time to get some fridges. I'll need about 9 new ones in the next 10 years and one asap.

My plan is to do research and cross my fingers like everyone else. I think I want bosch or kitchenaid.

I think you need to buy proffesional grade appliances. That is what I'm trying. Do you want a tool? Buy Bosch blue not green. Instead of a Breville coffee machine buy a Rancilio. Instead of a Candy dishwasher buy a Winterhalter. Instead of a Bosch blender buy Vitamix. It's 3 to 10× more expensive? Quality cost. Don't have a budget to buy everything top grade, like most of the people, buy twice then.

I havent even heard of half of these brands, thanks for the tip! Your username checks out too!

Which is tragic, considering a lot of older fridges were built to last decades. Granted, they probably weren't as efficient but if something broke you basically threatened the fridge with a wrench and it started working lol

People suxh as this guy selling appliances for 37 years, are resigning themselves to the junk cycle and getting cheapest possible.

But i think his budget comes into play

I found a subzero fridge today at a yard sale and im going to get it. Hope it works