LAPTOP?! Yes, laptop. Framework, specifically.

Submitted by Goldie1822 t3_11gq8r2 in BuyItForLife

http://frame.work

Disclaimer: I bought one and am a happy customer :)

Framework laptops are made to be upgraded but not replaced. Everything down to the laptop shell is replaceable and they put QR codes on the internals to link to the replacement guides, for example, the laptop's motherboard goes bad? Open up the laptop, order a new motherboard (or warranty claim it), scan the QR code on the inside, and replace it yourself.

Right to repair is EMBRACED by the company and thus makes it truly BIFL. Every component is replaceable, upgradable, and there are instructions on their website with video on how to perform such procedures.

Anyway, I'm really happy with it and it's worth checking out for those in the laptop market.

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ReferHvacGuy t1_japu5wc wrote

Very cool concept. I would like to see some different graphics options, but for someone just looking for a professional use laptop, this looks like an interesting option. However to see a $2000+ price tag for worse specs than what you can get for under $1000, this is a hard sell for me.

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Goldie1822 OP t1_jaqscw5 wrote

Get DIY and put your own components in and save 50%. That’s exactly what I did.

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SeattleJeremy t1_jaq65ek wrote

As a framework owner, I, too, would like to see them offer one with a 15" display and a real graphics card. I got the 1240 DIY and assembled it with ddr4 memory and a drive purchased elsewhere. The whole thing was just over $1100. Sometimes we've got to pay a little more to have reparable stuff.

Which would you rather have? A mini split with refrigerant included or a system you make yourself?

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glockster19m t1_jaqrz37 wrote

If they need a professional grade computer for work they can't just settle for something that's not powerful enough

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ReferHvacGuy t1_jar0zzr wrote

Interesting comparison given my career but nearly every mini-spilt comes with the refrigerant included, and you typically have to weigh in some extra depending how long the lines are.

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Candid-Tumbleweedy t1_jarnlk5 wrote

Yea without a real graphics card this it totally useless to me. I wish I could use it but nope

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ReferHvacGuy t1_jarpby7 wrote

100%, I guess when I say “professional” I mean, it’s an executive/management office worker laptop lol.

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Candid-Tumbleweedy t1_jarputl wrote

Haha yea that’s fair. Good for 90% of people but not for me trying to do 3D work

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Chakramer t1_japwlrz wrote

Electronics, specifically microchips, are not BIFL just by their own nature. I love my electronics but I don't expect them to last forever, it's not realistic. A good laptop is going to last 6 to 10 years anyways, really depends on how much and what you use it for. And by that time pretty much everything in it will be ourdated and you probably want a new one in general just so it'll look newer.

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insanok t1_jaq05pw wrote

You know, this is essentially the truth, the plastic shell is one day going to break, the flash memories won't be able to hold a charge and dead sectors will increase with time. Youl might get more SEU as the silicon ages. Capacitors will leak. It definitely is a finite lifetime.

But as Moores law slows down, the processors aren't getting exponentially quicker and memory isn't getting exponentially more dense - an older model doesn't become out dated quite so quickly, and a laptop a generation old perhaps becomes more desirable than it once was.

Framework aren't advocating the last laptop youl ever buy, that would be a little ridiculous- but they are "revolutionising" right to repair for laptop - making parts accessible, replaceable, upgradeable, including the board level drawings I believe. They provide drawings for a case that can be 3d printed for the motherboard to be turned into a desktop. They're attempting to undo the last 30 years of damage done by manufacturers who only want to manufacture for the sake of manufacture.

When your apple macbook battery reaches 1000 power cycles, you get an unblockable popup saying "service required" - until you have the battery replaced at significant markup on what it actually should cost. When the screen suffers "staingate" they charge $900 for a replacement screen, even though an entire new laptop is $1400. When your SSD goes, but because it's a proprietary connector and Apple no longer manufactures that type.. when your laptop is mostly held together with glue and never intended to come apart "no user serviceable components inside"

The computing industry is loaded with manufacturers of Ewaste and this is the problem. A 10/20$ part breaking writes off the entire device leaving no options.

To me, this is what framework is really addressing. E Waste. This is what BIFL really means. It's a well designed product that will stand the test of time because it is either bullet proof, or has a good upgrade/ maintenance path and not just a "one and done"

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Goldie1822 OP t1_jaqs9ia wrote

This is why you can upgrade the internals as needed. That’s the concept of the company.

I feel like your post is one of someone that just reads the headline of something but not the article.

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Chakramer t1_jaqwrnu wrote

I am very familiar with the framework laptop

I just don't think laptops go obsolete fast enough that this is the laptop for most people.

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JohnDoeMTB120 t1_jarahxl wrote

Won't literally everything have to be upgraded eventually though? Maybe not the shell and screen, but everything else. Even the motherboard will have to be upgraded eventually.

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Goldie1822 OP t1_jarb91f wrote

That’s the point, yes, and instead of buying a whole new computer you can replace the obsolete parts. Even down to the chassis.

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JohnDoeMTB120 t1_jarcom8 wrote

Right. I understand the appeal of only replacing the parts that need to be replaced when they need to be replaced. I just don't really consider it BIFL when ultimately every part will be replaced.

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Walkop t1_jarfl9f wrote

What is buy it for life, then? Only things that never break? Repairability is a big factor, most things that are by it for life require maintenance. Look at boots, any high quality boot in this sub will require regular maintenance, resoling, all sorts of things in order to keep it buy it for life item.

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JohnDoeMTB120 t1_jarm4wk wrote

I think there's a difference between maintaining something and replacing a part every now and then (resoling a boot for example) vs. replacing literally every part over time so that eventually there are zero parts of the computer that are from the original purchase. Just my 2 cents, but I don't think computers are BIFL. Technology advances too quickly and makes every part in the computer obsolete in 10-15 years.

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zombienudist t1_jarxr2i wrote

And that is why many people don't see boots as buy it for life. But the difference is the repairs the boot will need to keep them functioning. A boot might require a heel in 7 years. You understand it would be very strange to have a boot where every single component has been replaced. That is just a new pair of boots made over a longer period of time. The only benefit to doing something like that is if you get way longer out of the product, or save money/the environment. In the case of boots I can wear them for 7 years, do a resole, and wear them for another 7. And depending on how much you use them you can have boots decades later you are still use. For example I have a pair of boots made in 1984 but not a computer that is even close to that old. There is no way to keep that kind of old tech running for that long in a useable way.

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handymanny131003 t1_jargvk5 wrote

While this is true the idea behind this device is that certain pieces, like the keyboard or trackpad, don't go obsolete as fast as the CPU or GPU do. They also encourage you to use your old internals as a mini PC when you upgrade, which eliminates even more e-waste. That, combined with the fact that it's so damn easy to repair, means that while it might not be BIFL, it's certainly not "cry when the screen breaks"

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Yosyp t1_jaqa05c wrote

Electronics in general doesn't belong to this sub, if you know a thing or two about it you wouldn't post them here

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nasanu t1_jaql88l wrote

Its this attitude that makes it ok for electronic manufactures to keep disabling their products every few years to make us all buy new ones.

There is zero reason why electronics cant be bifl.

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Lord_Sirrush t1_jaqvhhr wrote

You're confusing two different issues here. Planned obsolescence and artificial control of products shortening life spans artificially is different than trying to design something that lasts forever. Do you know how hard it is to get parts from 40 years ago? Just because electronics don't move does not mean there is not ware on the components. Batteries die and corrupt stored memory, old capacitors leak acid destroying the PCB around the part, shorts damage multilayer boards so you cannot see the full damage. Faster digital speeds gets into RF territory requiring specific trace sizes for timing and impedance control, meaning repair by jumper is only possible on low speed systems.

In short the faster more powerful electronics become obsolete at their jobs faster. PCs fit in this category. Even if your hardware is good you will be out paced by software needing more memory and more processing power. This being said, there is no reason to restrict someone from fixing a bad circuit on their coffee maker.

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nasanu t1_jaqxfvh wrote

You don't even seem to know what you are commenting about. How is a keyboard going to be too slow? Is a metal frame going to be incompatible with future CPUs?

Also for a lot of applications not much power is even needed, so even if it wasn't a good ideal to be able to use parts of a laptop forever you can still get a long life out of an old laptop. That is basically what the entire Chromebook segment is. And things like USB are going nowhere but even if it does, the basic computer busses almost never change, you can still use PS2/serial keyboards on PC because when you get down to it everything converts to basic PCI busses.

As per electronics in general, I have 15 year old speakers, they are excellent and I see no reason to get rid of them. Why do I have to just because you say electronics aren't bifl? I have an audio interface that is years old and I cant see that being obsolescent since its xlr plug has been around for 100 years.

Seriously this entire sub exists because electronics were buy it for life, lightbulbs lasted basically forever and this cost companies money, so they made them die. That is why this sub needs to exist. Now you are giving the very reason for the existence of this sub a pass...? Why?

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Lord_Sirrush t1_jar0atu wrote

I would ask you to look a bit at my post history. I'm an electrical engineer who specializes in keeping old equipment up and running. A 20 year life cycle is good but it is still not what I would consider BFL. Even spare parts sitting on a shelf go bad.

Old programs used to work off of punch cards, and before screens outputs would be printed on long sheets of paper. You just don't find parts for that kind of equipment anymore. Instead you scrap it and build an emulator. Look there will be a time when the last mechanical hard drive fails and the last 3.5 inch floppy is forever demagnetized, and that is ok as long as you don't wait to the last minute to transfer essential functions.

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zombienudist t1_jar3zgd wrote

They don't have a clue how much has changed in the last 20 years. I have worked in IT since the late 1990s and it is laughable to think that a device from even 10 years ago would still be able to be used today and that is just because of advancements in the tech. The pace of change is slower then it was 20 years ago mostly becuase the hardware is so powerful there is not much more an average person can do with a device. So desktop computers are used far longer than they were 20 years ago but I don't have many businesses still running 10+ year old computers even if they are still working fine. I think they are conflating electronics like speakers with computers/tech stuff when those are vastly different things.

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Walkop t1_jarf64n wrote

It's not them, it's you who doesn't understand the conversation.

The conversation isn't talking about performance. It's talking about how the frames and boards aren't designed to be future proof.

For example, Intel could have designed a CPU interface that had a thousand unused pins. Buses that have massive extra unused width. Then these interfaces would last much longer, and it does not really increase cost of manufacture.

There's no need to constantly be replacing and upgrading interfaces. Interfaces themselves aren't complex to manufacture. They're nothing relative to the chips themselves. The only real reason is planned obsolescence. They could easily be designed to last multiple times longer than they do, and they just don't.

It's the same thing with soldered components. Most components don't need to be soldered, and they don't benefit from it, unless you're in a hypermobile device. The only benefit is to the manufacturer.

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zombienudist t1_jartzo8 wrote

The boards can't be future proof in the way you believe. They can allow for some forward capability as they usually do. But they don't have a time machine. They can't build something to meet the requirements of tech that doesn't exist yet. That makes zero sense, and you really don't understand how these systems integrate if you believe that. I mean why did people use horses and not just build and make cars. Because the tech to do that didn't exist for that. Do you really believe that the same board they designed 20 years ago could run a modern processor just because they knew things would get faster? Do you not understand that all the tech has to keep pace with that in order for that to work?

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Yosyp t1_jaqlzt4 wrote

Oh well, we should have all kept using vacuum tubes then.

edit: people downvoting me don't want any type of progress and have no idea how chips work... the greatly democratic Reddit

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zombienudist t1_jaryyvb wrote

That is r/BuyItForLife for you. I used to work in appliance sales and service for much of the 1990s. But make the mistake of saying anything negative against a speed queen or a top loader and people lose their minds. They don't care there is nuance here. That their needs might be different then another. And that your needs might be different than theirs. I would never own a top loader for many reasons but say that and you get downvoted. Doesn't matter that I have fixed just about every type/make of major appliance and sold them. People like to believe they have found some secret and can't take any negative things about that.

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Yosyp t1_jarzrrq wrote

I don't even know top loaders are a thing in Italy, never seen one used in EU context.

Some people are just incredibly ignorant and can't accept facts. Planned obsolescence is a thing, natural progress is another. You can't have progress if you can't abandon old stuff, and people with a grasp of consumer electronics all agree that we couldn't have had all the utilities and luxuries we have today with the technology of twenty years ago. Imagine thinking an 80' laptop would suffice for today... you couldn't even write emails on them.

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zombienudist t1_jas4qge wrote

People tend to see things in strange ways. They see a washing machine that is 30 years old and say "well it must be good if it last that long" But I know use is far more important than time. If the thing looks brand new maybe it wasn't used that much. Use of something is very important. Based on what I see here I think many of these people just sit this stuff on a shelf to look at it. Meanwhile I now work in IT but I must be the one that doesn't understand technology.

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nasanu t1_jaqktfx wrote

Yeah if I were buying a laptop a framework is what I would get.

EDIT: Wow the people here really don't get the concept. It isn't about saving money somehow, its about not wasting resources. If you like throwing out complex electronics, toxic metals and lots of plastic every few years because one component is out of date then you do you. Personally I welcome a laptop where I can piecemeal replace bits that need replacing when I need them replaced.

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dcabines t1_jarj9ev wrote

>its about not wasting resources

Then using second hand equipment will always be better than buying anything new.

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Kiki_Bo_Beeki t1_jat6g6o wrote

For most things, secondhand will do the job. But for reducing waste and having a usable/reliable computer, OP's scenario seems like the better way to go. Especially if/when more widely adopted.

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nik_da_brik t1_jas6wbc wrote

Ironically, framework is actually a really good budget option if you're replacing a laptop with removable ram and nvme storage, since the diy edition is one of the few ways to get a new laptop without those components.

Also, the DIY edition lets you save about $100 over the pre-configured models if you get the same specs but without a windows license. Just use the Microsoft activation scripts to bypass buying a key, or be a nerd and use Linux.

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fergan59 t1_jaqxwho wrote

You could just stay 5 -7 years behind tech-wise and when you go to upgrade the laptop, salvage what peripherals you want to keep using and either repurpose, sell or keep as a spare if the environmental impact is the issue for you.

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franksnotawomansname t1_jaq2nyp wrote

That's awesome! I had heard of Fairphones before (and will get one if/when my phone dies), but I had no idea that there was a laptop equivalent. Thanks!

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Hulks_Tank t1_jar8lro wrote

I have a Fairphone and really like it! Only negotiable point for me is the image quality of the Camera. There they could do better. The rest is fine

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SandKeeper t1_jc6adgq wrote

Man. I wish I could do the fair phone. I’m so locked in on iPhone though. I trade mine in when I do get new ones though so I hope apple is committed to recycling them like they say they are.

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lingueenee t1_jas4dyd wrote

Typing this out on an 11 12 year old 15" Dell Latitude, a business model designed around easy user repairs and upgrades. That's precisely why I still have it: you can continue to dive in to help it deliver contemporary, modern OS experiences (dual SSD Win 10/Linux). CPU, RAM, drives (including optical), keyboard, battery, etc. have been swapped out over the years. Used to be this was standard practice on devices. Now? Disposability is a feature.

So it's back to the future for Framework, though they really take user serviceability to a new level. Good for them. If this Dell ever dies most likely a Framework will be my next (and last) laptop.

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NotAnAd2 t1_jatshge wrote

It’s still very conceptual, but Dell is exploring a modular laptop. I hope it comes to market for real soon. There should be more options for this.

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mekkelrichards t1_jaz55gs wrote

If you are looking to buy a great laptop these days, I suggest purchasing a used Latitude 5000 series. The 7000s are also great still, but they are getting thinner and thinner and thus more difficult to repair. The 5000s are a bit more reasonably sized and easier to work on. I have been using Latitudes now for a decade thru my work laptops and as my personal PCs.

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lingueenee t1_jb047xo wrote

Oh, there is no lack of deals out there in the abundance of older Wintel hardware still circulating. If I do go that route I'll probably wind up with a ThinkPad or Latitude (my current model is an i7 E6520). No complaints and I don't anticipate replacing any circuitry soon but I confess the modularity and versatility, not to mention the current standards and performance, available with Framework designs are strong selling points.

Because the company is in its infancy it has a way to go in terms of product lineup and refinement but the ingenuity on display thus far has been quite impressive.

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aurdinarily t1_japuh6y wrote

Looking forward to this becoming more popular so there are more options, 16" screen required for me

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blancaloma t1_jappweo wrote

Thanks, I needed to know this!

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yParticle t1_japqvb4 wrote

Hell yes. Had mine since 2021. Love everything about it so far.

Last laptop I'll ever buy.

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Wildmann3 t1_jaq71n8 wrote

!remindme 30 years

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zBarba t1_jar8kq2 wrote

You just opened a world to me, that looks great

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Memeboidad3 t1_jasf6ox wrote

What happens if company goes under?

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Goldie1822 OP t1_jaslcfu wrote

Not that concerned just yet. Lean staff. Linus Tech Tips is a huge investor in the company and driving up sales. There are a bunch of nonproprietary components, i.e. storage and RAM namely, the two most likely things to go (battery aside).

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Memeboidad3 t1_jasrboy wrote

Good points, thanks for taking time to write them out

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spambearpig t1_jaq9dbl wrote

You can say these are upgradable, but the best you can buy now isn’t very good. If I got one of these brand-new, I would want to immediately upgrade it to have a better display and then find they don’t sell one.

This is an average laptop at best. I don’t think you will want to spend money upgrading it as time goes by.

The only thing about it is not absolutely bog standard is the price.

Then, when one day this bog standard laptop becomes definitely shit, you will be able to spend 2 laptops worth of money to return it to bog standard again.

Nice idea, crap as a real choice for most computer users. You are buying an idea that won’t really work out.

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Goldie1822 OP t1_jaqs644 wrote

Interesting take. I do photo and video editing on mine…

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ldeveraux t1_jar36ja wrote

There can be future updates you know. I can only hope they would make future advancements that you can swap in.

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spambearpig t1_jar6qp6 wrote

Yeah we can hope but I sure don’t predict that’ll be the case. In the last 4 years Apple have shown than an integrated chipset outpeforms a collection of CPU, RAM and graphics all hooked to a motherboard. So just for example, if the futute of laptops is integrated chips then this sucker is done for. Done. Redundant. And that’s just 1 thing that might change beyond their ability to keep up.

I’m not against the notion but I really don’t think it’s an effective idea in the real world.

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ldeveraux t1_jar9pe1 wrote

Apple convinced people they want to spend too much money for a name. Sure their products are good, they aren't THAT good.

Regardless, this is designed to be a modular product, so I'd expect it to remain that way as long as Framework is viable. Just like people will keep buying the latest iPhone year after year with little improvement over the last model, people will upgrade their laptops if it's available.

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Walkop t1_jargf4b wrote

They are that good. The M1/2 are no joke. But they're not magic sauce, they're incredibly expensive to make because they are massive dies on the most expensive node you can get, which gets exponentially more expensive the larger you go.

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ldeveraux t1_jarglcy wrote

OK I didn't realize I was talking to a fanboy, nevermind.

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Walkop t1_jarlvhx wrote

I don't own a single Apple product and I never will , at this point. But you can't deny the facts, M1/2 are great designs. They're just ludicrously expensive and will never see the light of day in a product that isn't thousands of dollars. Not the full die, at least.

They also aren't meant to compete with AMD and Intel and the majority of cases. They never will be able to.

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ldeveraux t1_jarnddc wrote

you've never owned an Apple product but you're telling me the M1 and M2 are the tops.

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Walkop t1_jasclmz wrote

I'm telling you that they're incredible performers for what they are. That's true. The amount of performance they get for the power draw is very, very good. There's been little competition on release. Definitely nothing remotely close in an APU. It's a very wide chip that gets a very high IPC because it has so much die allocated to things that give it more efficiency.

Most people who praise it, though, seem to think you could put that chip into a much cheaper device that's non Apple and it'd still be affordable, and that they've developed some magic sauce that makes it Apple-tax worthy. It's NOT that. It's a very expensive to make, high end chip. So it goes into very expensive products that happen to have the "Apple tax".

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ldeveraux t1_jasezou wrote

I don't disagree. I thought we were talking about the Framework, no?

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Walkop t1_jarfvlx wrote

Apple didn't convince anyone of anything. The only reason that the M series chips are good is because they are ludicrously expensive to produce, and a massive die. It's not because they broke some boundary.

The M1 Max is the size of an AMD 5950X, and a 30 series GPU PUT TOGETHER. It's not some Apple magic sauce. It is on the most advanced node you can get manufacturing wise, it is incredibly large, which means it is ludicrously expensive to make. The only reason it works is because it's in an Apple device that is integrated top to bottom. It would never work for an off-the-shelf component. And it would also never work in a cheap device.

Don't get me wrong, it's a very well performing, very efficient chip. But it's that way because it's incredibly expensive to make, more so than any dedicated desktop CPU on the market right now, with the most advanced manufacturing.

To top it all off, there's no reason that a chip like this could not be socketed. It could easily be designed that way. If they wanted to, which they obviously do not.

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worom001 t1_jaqt35s wrote

No computer or laptop is ever bifl. Ever. BIFL means just some maintanance here and there, or no maintanance at all. Computers and laptops become outdated and sluggish on average within 3 to 5 years of manufacture if you're going to be pushing the hardware for, say, rendering, video editing, compiling, etc. Meaning you're going to have to replace some parts (for Desktop PCs it's usually either the GPU or CPU), which framework doesn't enable without either getting a whole new mobo or you getting a used better one from ebay or Craigslist.

The lowest cost mobo/cpu if you wanted to upgrade would be £820 for me for the i5-1250P cpu, which is obtainable in low end £400 and, sometimes, even shitty and flimsy £300 laptops. ANY laptop will last 3 to 5 years (the average desktop replacement/upgrade rate) if you treat it right, even if you push it to its limits. And at that point, where a cpu upgrade is worth double the amount of a brand new laptop with the same cpu? Or the alternative cpu that will come out in 3 or 4 or 5 years time? I just don't see the point.

Repairability is nice, but if I have to keep repairing it, it's not very BIFL, is it? I mean, you can repair most normal laptops whether that be screen, keyboard, track pack, new USB ports, etc, if you actually decide to sit down and spend a few hours following YouTube tutorials.

Don't get me wrong, I love the framework platform. I love the modularity, it reminds me of the modular phones that were released YEARS back that everyone thought were going to last you a lifetime too. And I also love the fact that you can do ANYTHING to the laptop too, if you want to modify it, just buy the inside hardware and make a liquid-cooled pc built into your desk, or smash it onto the back of your monitor on your desk because you hate cables, you can do it all. But I genuinely don't believe this is BIFL, nor does repairability make it so.

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fergan59 t1_jaqyd0j wrote

Yeah I was excited at the possibility of 3d printing custom made lego pieces to hold the computer chips that would make up my google ara modular phone. It could of been great. Sigh.

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of_patrol_bot t1_jaqydu6 wrote

Hello, it looks like you've made a mistake.

It's supposed to be could've, should've, would've (short for could have, would have, should have), never could of, would of, should of.

Or you misspelled something, I ain't checking everything.

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ninjafetus t1_jasmi7j wrote

Agreed. It would be like saying, "Look! Look at my BIFL axe! I have only needed to replace the blade once and the handle twice!"

Just because you can make fewer modular replacements doesn't mean it's BIFL.

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Avaisraging439 t1_jar1hr7 wrote

This has to be an ad disguised as a post.

I agree that everything is true as it is said but this is written in a way only an ad would be.

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Goldie1822 OP t1_jar6lh7 wrote

I mean I do marketing/PR for work but my only disclosure is I’m a happy customer

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Avaisraging439 t1_jar7q1y wrote

Ex marketing here, I knew I could spot a fellow marketer from a mile away lol

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BackgroundSituation8 t1_jarp9mf wrote

Yep we saw right through this one

The only thing ur missing is ur coupon code on the cta kid

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BackgroundSituation8 t1_jarorfy wrote

Nah.

Just as this tech didnt exist 3 years ago, it wont last a lifetime let alone a decade

The marketing department sure is doing a fine job though

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Preset_Squirrel t1_jarwk0q wrote

This.

Cost to repair is gonna outpace cost to replace in like 6 months on this thing.

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F-21 t1_jaq15lj wrote

I own an IBM Thinkpad that'll probably outlive the Framework :)

That said, I had a mid-2012 MBP that was awesome, never had any issues. Swapped to SSD at some point and it was still fine a decade after it was made. That's as BIFL as it can be for tech in my opinion. People saying "this is the last laptop I'll buy" are probably exaggerating. If a laptop lasts you 10 years, you need 5 or 6 in your lifetime - and that's fine by me.

At some point, "upgrades" don't cut it and the Framework (if it stays afloat) will have to be redesigned from scratch to benefit from the latest tech.

I'm sure it will last for a long time and will be easy to repair. But it certainly won't last forever.

For example, in 2018 I bought an ipad Pro and 5 years later it's still terrific. No stutters or anything... It fully replaced my MBP last year when I sold the laptop (and still got 300€ for it!). I'm sure it'll be totally fine for the next 5 years, possibly even 10...

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Goldie1822 OP t1_jaqsi2s wrote

I’m not sure you get the concept of the framework. You can upgrade and replace the internal and external components as needed. From the chassis to the motherboard to the keyboard and anything in between.

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F-21 t1_jaqv1tg wrote

That's if the company stays afloat, and at some point if you replace everything, it's not even the same computer anymore and to me it seems you may even end up dumping way more money into it.

It would be an entirely different thing if such modular construction was standardized and used by everyone, but that is extremely unlikely to happen.

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Walkop t1_jargjn0 wrote

So far, so good. They've been around for a while now, and the LTT has a pretty massive investment in them.

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fergan59 t1_jaqx8nb wrote

I like the concept but they are too expensive and the replacement parts are also too expensive. If there was a thriving second hand parts market it could be feasible for some, but it's just too niche for that to happen.

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ThirdeYe1337 t1_jaq26s1 wrote

I’m still rocking my old Lenovo G780 I bought in 2012. Core i5 and a gt630. Wasn’t terribly expensive at the time, maybe $700-750 with an extra stick of RAM. I still use it every day. Upgraded the HDD to an SSD last year to buy it more time. Everything still works great but the battery is getting weaker… I’m lucky to get an hour out of it at lower brightness.

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F-21 t1_jaq2e8w wrote

Yeah I swappes the one in my MBP at some point.

Still, I considered it a wear item and ot was really easy to replace. Not something I'd fault the PC for, at some point a battery just needs to be replaced...

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ThirdeYe1337 t1_jaq2nk6 wrote

Absolutely. I still have my old HP laptop I bought in 2005 and that still works great, too, albeit extremely slow. I think I may even have the original battery in it but I can’t remember for sure. I remember i had the cpu fan replaced under warranty when it was new and the charging cable around 2009-2010. I hardly ever use it anymore, though.

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US_Dept_Of_Snark t1_jarjefy wrote

I bought a refurbished Dell laptop in January 2011 for less than $500. I still use it daily. It's working fine. It's on for probably ~12 hours a day everyday. I would do it again -- except that it doesn't look like I'll be needing to for a while.

I don't think that Dell has anything wrong with people upgrading their own computer. I swapped out the hard drive for an SSD. I upgraded the RAM.

Frame work sounds pretty expensive, compared.

Glad it's working well for you though.

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SandKeeper t1_jc6akbg wrote

These allow for full mother board and cpu swaps when a new one becomes available. So rather than buying a whole laptop again you can buy individual components.

I don’t have one now because my Lenovo laptop is still doing great but when it eventually where’s out I will probably switch to one of these.

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zombienudist t1_jarw46k wrote

The easier thing to do is just buy and off lease laptop especially if you are just doing basic office stuff. Most computers last a long time and the specs don't need to be updated constantly for that kind of work any longer. Or you can slide it downwards in use. So I like to have an updated laptop and upgrade every 3-5 years or so because I work in IT. What I do is replace mine and that old one goes to my dad (or anyone with less needs). So right now he is using my last one and so that one is now 7 years old or so. Even the one before that is still in use as a backup system for a kid. That one is over 10 years old. But you go buy the lowest priced laptop and it probably won't last that long. People have to understand that there is a massive difference between a $500 laptop and a $2000 one. This is where buying off lease comes in because you can get a powerful system for much less then it was new. This likely mean it was higher price to begin with and will likely last longer. It is why I always think it is funny when people say that apple laptops last forever. Well they don't really make those cheap systems so they will likely last far longer. Spend 2k on a windows based laptop and it will be the same kind of quality.

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Vinayplusj t1_jashbo8 wrote

Interesting. Would you please share some vendors who offer laptops for lease?

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Mazmier t1_jasc75v wrote

Downside is no GPUs unless you want to do eGPU.

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Brdl004 t1_jase2p0 wrote

what happens when the company goes bankrupt due to weak sales and you can’t get parts anymore ?

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[deleted] t1_japymxc wrote

I own a system76 Darter Pro for the same reason

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Damas_gratis t1_jaqgxu0 wrote

My laptop was 300$ and honestly still a very exellente piece of technology. Not a gaming laptop but just for internet. I play music, use my bluetooth speaker for music when I exercise, use my headphones, sometimes at night I cant use my computer at night because everyone in the house is sleeping so I just whip out my laptop and it's like having a small TV especially for YouTube just watching videos when you're bored. Helpful for workouts playing music. This 300$ laptop was worth it ! I even went to another country with it and it was handy to store my photos into it, go into my google photos and so much more. Its badass. Computers are a blessing to us all.

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pelican626 t1_javzton wrote

I have a Dell that is 10+ years old. My daughter (8) uses it as a web browser to access her schoolwork. I tried to give her a newer one but she likes it and it still works for all basic browsing needs etc. It is by no means a powerhouse but it is still used almost daily.

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tibimon t1_jazn164 wrote

Why only Intel?

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IGotSkills t1_jb0j7ve wrote

Only goes up to 64gb ram :(

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BackgroundSituation8 t1_jarp4y0 wrote

When did the buyitforlife sub become a shill for corporate companies to pump their products using bots?

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Goldie1822 OP t1_jarp8t3 wrote

My brother in Christ I’m a customer I’ve had the laptop for 2 months relax not everything is a conspiracy.

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Memeboidad3 t1_jasfjet wrote

To present OC’s comments in a more respectful way, how can you say something is BIFL if you’ve only had it for two months? I realize I’m being cynical but don’t you think I new startup company in a notoriously anticompetitive market space is a risky purchase and not worth of the BIFL title?

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Generic_Lad t1_jaruikv wrote

It still has the same flaws as every other laptop out there and is expensive for what you get

Your motherboard has a fault, well you aren't repairing the motherboard, you're buying a new motherboard

Your screen dies? You're not repairing the screen, you're replacing the screen.

Your trackpad dies? You're not repairing the trackpad, you're replacing it.

It makes more financial sense to buy an equivalent non-"BIFL" laptop that will last you a few years than buy something like this. Especially when you're paying such a steep premium.

Pretty much everything is better when comparing to an equivalent laptop by Apple or another brand in terms of raw specs and most of the repairability is basically the same either way when you're not including labor.

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ChaiTRex t1_jat9804 wrote

They didn't say that this allowed you to repair the motherboard, they said that this allowed you to repair the laptop. It does.

What you're saying is equivalent to if someone said they actually did repair a motherboard, but you pointed out that they didn't repair that resistor, they replaced it.

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