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jantron6000 t1_j0mec8r wrote

Reply to comment by Notsobigdeal in LE CREUSET stockpot - not really BIFL by crysardo

If they can make the iPhone, they can make anything. Virtually nothing is more exacting or complicated and I've never had one that was less than flawless. Often there is an association with production being shipped to China and a drop in quality, but that's because the company is likely trying to cut costs more than one way at the same time. Very common to see materials or specs slip at the same time as outsourcing or the brand gets sold to someone else who keeps the name and lowers the quality. Edit: high-end musical instrument manufacture is another good example, see Eastman

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0merpj wrote

Exactly!!!! Preach!!!! The location doesn’t matter. Companies say make this, these are your standards. Then the manufacturer does it, it has nothing to do with “CHINA”…

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Snuggledtoopieces t1_j0mi5jc wrote

China is notorious for sub standard metallurgy.

You can say where doesn’t matter but when their is an inherent flaw in the source material and production chain not much the manufacturer can do.

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0migfn wrote

Not true, that is a pure lie. Raw materials used to make products is chosen by the company, it’s their specifications. Manufacturers don’t just get to do it their way. They do exactly what they’re told to do. If the metallurgy is poor it is because the company allowed the manufacturer to use it.

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Snuggledtoopieces t1_j0mjfrd wrote

Say whatever you want I’m metallurgical engineer, any projects where we source Chinese pipe or stainless components you get significantly higher “off batches” that are out of spec compared to basically any other source but India.

But whatever you’ve probably got tons of experience with the subject.

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0mjpw7 wrote

I too am an engineer. Like I said in another comment. I focus on materials, processes, and products. I know all too well that they CAN do it the same. If they don’t it is the fault of the company that specs the product and processes.

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Snuggledtoopieces t1_j0mk93v wrote

You can make first class products anywhere in the world, China chooses to do a shitty Job.

You want good steel go to Germany or France.

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0mkrib wrote

They make it that way because it’s affordable. Not because they suck. People buy shitty steel, because it’s cheap. Not everyone needs world class steel. Price points. It’s not that they can’t, they spec it that way on purpose. You know that! You also know not every product is going to be perfect, maybe china isn’t the industry leader on steel. But the US isn’t the industry leader on enameled cast iron.

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Snuggledtoopieces t1_j0mm69d wrote

So you are literally admitting they make shitty steel. On purpose. So what exactly are you arguing? That they could do better if they wanted too?

Le creuset isn’t supposed to be cheap it’s supposed to be the best.

China is not where you get pots and pans manufactured,and you know that.
Any self respecting manufacturing company with a modicum of self respect and product identity would know that as well and not tolerate the quality drop.

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0mmgo7 wrote

The le cruset made in France is identical to the ones made in China and Taiwan period. As long as they are the same model and specs. Period. It is an Engineering fact.

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Snuggledtoopieces t1_j0mnmgv wrote

So they are made by the exact same machines, with the exact same source materials, inspected by the exact same quality control. You know none of that is true. But you are still arguing like it’s a fact.

It’s hard to have all products meet the exact same specifications in the same plant between lines.

There are very few facts in life, saying that two products from two separate facilities across the world in different climates are a 1-1 on spec is hubris at best. You obviously have much looser tolerances.

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0moj27 wrote

It’s a Dutch oven, not aerospace. I’m done arguing with you. If it is the same product, then it has same machine, same processes, same quality control, same standard work, same specs, same raw materials, same damn product. If it is different it’s because the company allows it. Companies choose everything about their products. I’m not gonna sit here and let a metallurgist tell me about products, that’s stupid. I am a product engineer, you are a metallurgist.

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Snuggledtoopieces t1_j0mp9l6 wrote

You are literally sitting here telling me about metal, I’m a metallurgical and mechanical engineer. I don’t care if it’s your specialty in this instance you are wrong.

The feedstock is fucked that’s all there is too it.

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0mppy1 wrote

The raw materials for products are chosen by companies. Are you not listening? If your pipe from China is ass it’s because it was specified to be that way. it was specced to be cheap. If you can’t agree with that then just go away. Go fuck a spectrometer.

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CartographerFew8764 t1_j0n6fcw wrote

Engineers bickering lol, whats new. But yeah youre right. The company chose not to spec the proper material and the maufacturer used it to the detriment of the product. The company i work for buys bulk metal products from china all the time and they have their issues but we do it knowing it is that way vs paying 3x for a 1.5x better product. Youre right that they could give the manufacturer the same spec and it would be the same product. China is just as capable as france, but i dont think they do. They make it cheaper and hope the product gets by on the brand name alone. If you want the better pot buy the one from france cause they actually do have the proper specs and qc.

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MorningHerald t1_j1632rz wrote

You should have ended this argument about 5 posts ago because you look sillier with each and every comment as you try to dig yourself out of this hole.

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adj1091 t1_j0nw61o wrote

Even if the materials are chosen correctly, they’re still made in China And in my experience China is hardly ever able to produce material certs that match spec, and US engineers look the other way. By the time you’re asking for certs, millions or billions have been spent, and often product has already been shipped. There’s really no bureaucratic way to unwind the mess that was made way above your pay grade.

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0nwdia wrote

Not true, that is false, and it is rooted in prejudice

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adj1091 t1_j0ny9w3 wrote

I’m just speaking from my experience as an SQE in automotive 10 years ago. There’s no prejudice everyone tries to cut corners, everyone wants a cheaper supplier, faster.

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johanvts t1_j0mmxjk wrote

I don't know if it's the best example. As I understand the iPhone production in china is mainly assembly and is being done by pretty much untrained staff hired straight from the Chinese countryside (see the recent riot). You are placing high quality components together, but it seems like a much different skillset to producing something more bespoke like a high end cast iron pot.

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0mp0uh wrote

Making cast iron cookware is surprisingly simple believe it or not. One of the easiest things to make on the planet.

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johanvts t1_j0mrqec wrote

Yeah I believe that. I just don't think iPhone assembly is really an all encompassing craft either.

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Notsobigdeal t1_j0ms4qu wrote

Well it’s not super easy. Tiny electronics is HARD. I was restoring an old Gameboy, and man you gotta have surgical hands for it. I just mean small parts is a pain to deal with, I’m not an electronics expert.

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