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Opposite_Match5303 t1_jakbykg wrote

Ok, I understand what you're saying here. I appreciate the really in-depth response! I'm not sure I agree 100%, but I'm at least convinced that you have really good reasons for your position.

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desicant t1_jakcpza wrote

Thanks for taking the time to have this conversation with me.

This has helped me think more clearly about my assumptions as well.

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Opposite_Match5303 t1_jamdqu5 wrote

It seems like this logic would also rule out e.g. current electric vehicles, which cause permanent environmental damage in the name of reducing emissions.

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desicant t1_jan32td wrote

Like, hypothetically, you have to get a car - it's not a choice - you only get to choose what kind and you can't wait for things to change or improve?

And, to be clear, if you want to 'reduce emissions' that is going to be something separate from 'rare earth mining and slave labor' - so it will be hard to compare directly.

But you could apply a heuristic that considers the long term consequences of one versus the other. The gas powered vehicle relies on gas industry infrastructure after all, and so buying a gas powered car reinvests in that infrastructure. And EVs, in contrast, do not - the purchase of an EV invests in the development of a non-carbon based energy system. So both have long term consequences, it's kind of a wash.

But ultimately how do you know if reduced emissions would offset the impact of rare earth mining? It's terribly difficult to see how that could even be measured, let alone evaluated. And because of the absence of any obvious choice it would probably just come down to making a personal, subjective, choice.

Like this "logic" is just trying to reason with limited information - and sometimes, as individuals, we must make choices before we have all the information we would like. Like we should definitely do more research, get more information, get better batteries, organize labor, de-colonize the countries being exploited by extraction industries - but those are long term projects that, if you have to buy a car to get to work tomorrow, aren't really going to help.

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