Can landlords ask about your job?

Submitted by The_other_one_2275 t3_12639pa in CambridgeMA

Every time I contact a broker or Landlord about an apartment that I find, they immediately respond, asking to know what everybody does for work. I will be starting grad school, and my spouse works full-time. But we have two children and I feel like the moment we mention that there are two kids they immediately stop answering us. I have read through the law and it seems like this is explicitly illegal to discriminate against children as long as it is not more people than are allowed for maximum occupancy of a unit. But I have yet to have a single landlord or broker continue the conversation with me after they have found out that I have kids. Should I just start lying and saying that there are no kids? I really don’t know what to do anymore. The market is so intensely competitive that I feel like at this point we will never find an apartment because nobody wants to rent to a family. Also, feels like they are discriminating against me, being a grad student. Even though we can prove enough income and savings to pay the rent.

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Moomoomoo1 t1_je7cqqi wrote

Pretty sure it is legal to ask about your job and I think every apartment I’ve rented has had that on the application (and been background checked). Definitely not legal to discriminate based on you having children but it’s probably pretty hard to prove that.

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commentsOnPizza t1_je7h1ut wrote

> Pretty sure it is legal to ask about your job

Maybe? It's a bit hard to say. You aren't allowed to discriminate based on source of income in Massachusetts. So if you filled out an application and the landlord emailed you saying, "oh, I don't want to rent to tech workers," it seems like they'd be toast since they're discriminating on the source of your income.

Yes, I think every rental application I've done has asked where I work. However, why should they be asking about something that they're not allowed to consider in their decision?

When you're interviewing someone for a job, there's a reason why you aren't supposed to ask certain questions. Even if it's legal to ask the question, it might not be legal to use the question in your decision. Why did you ask an irrelevant question? Did you ask because you're planning on using that information even though it's illegal to? It's not a great place to be.

As I said, I think every rental application I've done has asked where I work.

> and been background checked

I've never had this happen. I've had to submit a credit report, but that's it. Maybe the credit report seems like a background check?

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commentsOnPizza t1_je7fw83 wrote

I'm not sure why you started with "job". It sounds like this is just about the fact that you have kids.

Typically, landlords don't want kids in an apartment because nearly all of our housing hasn't been de-leaded. If a kid moves in, the landlord is required to remediate the lead paint in the unit at their expense. Lead paint removal might cost $10,000, the landlord has to pay your moving costs due to the remediation work, they lose any rent while the remediation work is happening, and they have to pay for your accommodations (hotel or whatnot) above what the rent is (so if the rent is $2,000 and the hotel is $3,000, you pay the hotel $2,000 and the landlord pays $1,000).

It isn't legal to discriminate against people with kids under six, but there is a huge incentive to do it.

Somerville's Tenant's Handbook (https://s3.amazonaws.com/somervillema.gov.if-us-east-1/s3fs-public/tenants-helper-handbook.pdf) is probably a good place to start.

It sounds like the brokers aren't asking about kids and you're just bringing it up. Why? They ask about your job and your response is, "I'm starting grad school, my wife works full time, and we have two kids that require expensive de-leading if you rent to me." I'm sure you're not phrasing it like that, but it seems like you're steering the conversation that way (from the way your post is phrased). You don't have to lie. You can just not bring it up and if they ask kinda deflect the issue or change the subject.

> Also, feels like they are discriminating against me, being a grad student.

Ok, this is back to the job. Landlords aren't allowed to discriminate based on source of income in Massachusetts. However, they can decide to go with a tenant with more income. I don't know what your wife's job is, but it might not be as high as others who are looking at places. It's not just proving that you can pay the rent (which can never actually be proven since circumstances change). Someone else might seem more likely to be able to pay the rent because they have a higher income. Often landlords like to see 3-4x the rent as income.

If you're applying to cheaper places, they probably have a huge stack of applicants. I'm guessing if you looked at the Zinc Apartments or something like that, you would have less trouble. The problem is that new buildings are expensive in Cambridge - a 2-bed place there is $4,300-4,600/mo. If you're looking at places at $2,800, there's going to be a ton of competition. It's hard to know whether it's discrimination or random.

You can create a complaint with MCAD, but I've heard that they're pretty backed up.

If the issue isn't cost, the new professionally managed buildings won't have lead issues (since they were built after lead paint was made illegal). If cost is an issue, maybe don't bring up kids until after a lease is signed. However, I should note that if the landlord has to de-lead the unit, you probably won't be able to move in on time. Once the existing tenant moves out, they'll have to remove the lead. I don't know how long that will take, but it will likely require you to move into some temporary housing until your unit is available - just so that you plan for that.

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Any_Advantage_2449 t1_je9lg00 wrote

There is not a single landlord that would say that they know lead exists. You also sign things saying that you understand that the landlord has no idea if lead exists.

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CobaltCaterpillar t1_jego45w wrote

When I first rented, i was SO naive on this issue. I eventually talked with a lead inspector, and it was eye opening. What I learned:

(1) BASICALLY ALL houses/units that are sufficiently old and haven't been remediated have lead. I naively thought that any lead issues would be solved in a big remodel. NOPE! The older a house is, the probability of it having some lead approaches 100%.

(2) For example, original windows are one of the most problematic/dangerous (opening/closing window or doors grinds lead paint -> lead paint dust contaminating all the surfaces/wood around it).

(3) Buyers, real estate people etc... view a positive lead test as a scarlet letter. NO ONE TESTS FOR LEAD because NO ONE WANTS A POSITIVE TEST ON THE PERMANENT RECORD. People take no test to mean may not have lead, but it's closer to the opposite!

(4) It's not obvious where lead is or isn't until you get an inspector and they use the scanner.

(5) The way lead home tests seem to happen is that a kid will have elevated lead on a routine blood test, THEN the home will get inspected, and then a remediation process starts.

(6) Real estate agents etc... will straight up lie to you.

(7) Sellers won't accept your home bid etc... unless you waive your right to test for lead before closing. (Even though that's illegal.)

(8) Most everyone seems to ignore or pooh pooh the issue.

(9) I'm not an expert. Everything above may have serious errors (i.e. go talk to a real expert, not me)!

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The_other_one_2275 OP t1_je89kj9 wrote

Thanks. I am not offering the info about kids. They always ask “how many people and what do they do for work”. So I’m forced to say two are kids. I do understand the lead issue but my kids are older than 6.

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pelican_chorus t1_je9rl5i wrote

Note the landlord is not required to immediately de-lead the house. Rather, the only have to if the tenant asks them to.

Plenty of people who are on good terms with their landlords and are not too worried about lead operate under a "don't ask don't tell" policy.

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amateurviking t1_je7dska wrote

We encountered this last year when we were apartment hunting. MA lead laws are meant to protect kids but in practice mean that families with children are simply ignored in favor of other applicants. The burden is on the landlord to remediate for lead, and since their not even willing to pay for their own realtors in this town - putting the burden on leasees instead - they're certainly not interested in that.

We ended up not disclosing unless the apartment was newly renovated or there were children in situ already. Huge issue that's underreported

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charlottespider t1_je7pp3o wrote

Landlords don't want to rent to families. It's a huge problem in Cambridge, and it has been for more than a decade. Do you have a housing resource through your school? We went into Harvard University housing, and that's the only way my family was able to find a Cambridge apartment 10 years ago. I watched landlords take my application and crumple it up, laughing. Finding an apartment in Brooklyn was a breeze in comparison.

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The_other_one_2275 OP t1_je88x0x wrote

I would love to get into HUH but it’s a lottery. It seems like it’s a total crapshoot

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charlottespider t1_jebirpk wrote

Get your family on the list, and go to the available unit page first thing in the morning every day. If you have any flexibility in terms of move in date, start the process ASAP.

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The_other_one_2275 OP t1_jecbeud wrote

Thanks. I did that. There has only been one unit listed for the last week. Nothing else. I’m really hoping something shows up.

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charlottespider t1_jecbm4g wrote

We're all moving out in June/July, and not much is going to show up before then. I wish you luck! And congrats on getting into Harvard ;)

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CheesecakeHorror8613 t1_je7pi2j wrote

Contact the Cambridge Human Rights Commission (can find at Cambridgema.gov departments section) and they can answer all your questions.

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fun_guy02142 t1_je7v9y5 wrote

How old are your kids? No one wants to rent to children under 5, because of the lead issue.

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The_other_one_2275 OP t1_je88t1p wrote

Older than 6

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pelican_chorus t1_je9ru5a wrote

This is important. Everyone is bringing up lead remediation, but the law only requires a landlord to remediate if kids are under 6.

You could try making sure it's clear that your kids are over 6, and that you don't plan on having more. (It's not important whether that last part is true.)

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p53lifraumeni t1_je89vzh wrote

Can tenants without kids demand that the lead issue be remediated? Would it be possible to flood the system with complaints about lead so that this issue is generally settled?

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emilyjoy375 t1_je9m6ub wrote

No children, but I had this happen with my fiancé and I as well when we were trying to rent as incoming graduate students. Luckily we were both still working at the time as we hadn’t started the fall semester yet, so we eventually just stopped mentioning the fact that we would be transitioning to graduate school. The market is so insanely competitive atm — one time after an application was rejected I asked the realtor if he could give me any feedback on our application and he said “Oh nothing, this landlord just doesn’t want to rent to anyone under 35, or any students.” He had gotten 25 applications that day and rejected all of them.

I don’t have much advice beyond perhaps don’t mention anything that’s not directly asked, and try to find a good realtor who will start showing you apartments that are unlisted — and maybe ask if you can meet in-person with the landlord at the showing. Best of luck out there!!

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Sanger99 t1_jeetaf2 wrote

Not wanting to rent to students is probably pretty common. Insurance companies will not insure apartments if the tenants are students, or charge a really high rate if there is one that will.

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lilliavert t1_jeakjrq wrote

I sympathize with you on the savings and income piece because I found myself in a similar situation when I was looking for my first apartment, where I had the money to afford rent but my credit history was thin. Savings and and income may not be enough for landlords to deem you as a reliable tenant if your credit score is not up to their standards. Could this be a factor in your situation?

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The_other_one_2275 OP t1_jecbm1j wrote

We do have good credit. But the irony in America is you have to be in debt to show you can pay bills. We have no debt other than our mortgage so we have a “thin” credit profile but good scores.

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