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berlage1856 t1_iva53o1 wrote

If I remember correctly, right on red came about during the oil crisis of the 1970s, probably during the Carter years, as a way to reduce consumption (less idling at the light).

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Master_Dogs t1_ival3pw wrote

Wikipedia supports this claim with a few sources in this section: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red#North_America

Of course we did this at the expense of pedestrian and cyclist safety, as the same Wikipedia page has some sources for significant increases in motor vehicle crashes involving pedestrians and cyclists after adoption of right turn on red: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turn_on_red#Pedestrian_and_bicyclist_safety

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coweatman t1_ivff54n wrote

how is it less safe if you, y'know, look to see if you're going to hit anyone?

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Master_Dogs t1_ivfhsnp wrote

One of the studies covers this:

> Although RTOR laws require the motorist both to stop and to yield to any pedestrian or approaching vehicle in the intersection before turning on red, it had been postulated that pedestrians and bicyclists might be at increased risk under Western RTOR because of the inherent attention conflict for the turning driver. In particular, since the driver preparing for a RTOR is typically watching for traffic from his left, he may not see a pedestrian or bicyclist coming from his right.

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jeffbyrnes t1_iwdlcl1 wrote

This very thing happened to me this past weekend on Cedar St walking up to Highland Ave.

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coweatman t1_ivltwt9 wrote

there are a bunch of intersections I can think of off the top of my head where the light is long and the sightlines from where you're sitting at the red light are excellent. you have time to look and see if anyone is coming from any given direction, assuming you haven't lost your rearview and sideview mirrors.

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WaitForItTheMongols t1_ivagfop wrote

Sounds outdated then given the prevalence of electric cars which don't idle, and even most combustion cars now shut down the engine when stopped and restart it when you use the accelerator.

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Master_Dogs t1_ivalnm5 wrote

It's also a trade off we made against pedestrian/cycling safety:

> The report findings show large percentage increases in right-turn accidents at signalized locations after RTOR (e.g., increases ranging from 43% to 107% for pedestrians, and increases ranging from 72% to 123% for bicyclists in the three states studied.)

People in the article linked to in this post can try to have it both ways, but ultimately I'd rather be stuck in a traffic jam than see people hit more frequently because someone wanted a few seconds of times savings on their commute.

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berlage1856 t1_ivazh3j wrote

I understand that. You might find it interesting to look up traffic lights in The Netherlands: they are installing smart lights, super sensitive to approaching traffic (thus reducing wait times at lights) as a part of a light system that separates various traffic types (vehicular, pedestrian and cycles). A lot can be done with technology when there is a will—and some funding.

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ik1nky t1_ivbb68f wrote

Cambridge is installing video sensors at many intersections now. Wherever they pop up, waiting time is greatly reduced.

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berlage1856 t1_ivbcqzt wrote

Great to hear. Any examples to point out for us?

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ik1nky t1_ivbe2wu wrote

Mass Ave and Churchill in North Cambridge was the first one I found out about. The left turn arrow phase doesn't activate unless someone is actually turning.

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j_parkour t1_ivh19cl wrote

Interesting. I'll have to check that out. I had thought Cambridge had a policy to have no sensors and have everything run on a fixed timer.

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jeffbyrnes t1_iwdljgs wrote

The policy is that there are no “beg buttons” for pedestrian crossings, except at mid-block crossings, to ensure pedestrians always get an opportunity to cross during each light cycle.

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j_parkour t1_iwmiqlo wrote

That's true. But vehicle sensors can still be useful. Shortening a left arrow based on a sensor will allow a pedestrian light to come on sooner. And a side street sensor can cause the pedestrian light to change to flashing don't walk once traffic has cleared and pedestrians have been given adequate time.

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jeffbyrnes t1_iwmx57n wrote

Agreed! I’m not aware of any sensor usage, but also don’t know if there’s any policy against sensor usage. Enforcement cameras remain illegal in MA however.

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