Question about fences in Columbia

Submitted by kris10185 t3_10ga3a0 in ColumbiaMD

Hi everyone! We live about 15 minutes away from Columbia in Anne Arundel County, and have been hoping to move to the Columbia or Ellicott City area. One of the main reasons for wanting to move is that we currently have a townhouse, and want to be in a single family home with a yard for our two large dogs. Being able to have a securely fenced in yard that can safely contain our dogs is an absolute requirement. It's been very confusing and unclear to navigate as an "outsider" to determine what all the individual HOA fencing requirements are. I know individual fencing plans are approved on a case-by-case basis by most HOAs but there are general rules that need to be followed. Is there any place with a master list of all the individual HOA rules? Some of them I can find with a Google search and some I can't. We don't want to buy a house only to find out that we can't build a fence that is solid enough and high enough for our dogs to be able to play in the yard. Thanks!

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Rashaverik t1_j51rxxs wrote

Former Covenant Advisor here.

I can tell you there is no master guideline, but most of the 10 villages have similar guidelines, and exceptions to the guidelines are made on case by case basis at each village. Each village has it's own application process.

That being said, you will rarely find a fence higher than 48" on a single family home for any of the villages. Town homes and small sections of SFH (privacy fence) can have a 6' fence, but not an entire yard. There are a few exceptions to this, as there are older villages that had some builder installed concrete walls between homes that measured 6'. These homes typically have the remainder of the yard enclosed with a similar height 'shadow box' style fence.

There's about 3 or 4 styles typically approved for your 48" fences. Estate and Paddock are usually the style most people with big dogs go with. Again, this varies between villages.

Also remember, if you buy a home and an adjacent neighbor that has an existing fence, you will likely be made to match that style of fence. Whether the residential architectural committee for the village will make you match the height, I don't know. (some homes have 36" fences)

I've seen people with similar situations as you, having large dogs, plead for higher fences and they have been denied. I've even seen homeowners pay for the replacement of a neighbor's fence so that they would match and be of a more secure type.

Whatever village in Columbia you end up being interested in, make sure to check the Covenants prior to buying. Also check with the Covenant Advisor, they're there to help you.

Each village has a website and the Covenants are usually on there as a PDF.

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Also...you can't apply for a new fence until you are officially the new homeowner. This has been a issue in the case of someone wanting to buy a home and be sure they can get what they're looking for approved.

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kris10185 OP t1_j51zomj wrote

This is incredibly helpful, thank you! Do you know offhand of any of the villages that allow 6ft fences? I would not want to chance buying a home and not being able to build a secure fence. I don't want to bother touring homes in communities where we wouldn't be likely to get approval.

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Rashaverik t1_j52goew wrote

Like I said. 48" is the standard height allowed in all the villages that I'm aware of. A 6' fence rarely exists. If it does, it's possibly long grandfathered in due to other circumstances. If you're buying a home that is CA assessed, DO NOT expect to be able to get a 6' fence.

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kris10185 OP t1_j52pawn wrote

Thank you! That's both very helpful and very disappointing. We may be looking for a "unicorn" that doesn't exist then, and that's very good to know. We love Columbia and all the trails, lakes, and restaurants but I'm not sure what we are looking for in a home exists there :(. Is there not a lot of pushback from homeowners about this? I can't imagine in a huge town that there aren't other homeowners with dogs that hope for fences higher than 48". I know if my dogs saw a deer they could clear one of those split rail 48" fences without missing a beat!

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inline4addict t1_j54zhfu wrote

I hate to scare you, but people I know don’t mess with the HOA. I’m told not to get on their bad side or else they’ll look for things to fine you about. There’s just no way to get a fence that tall.

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Liakada t1_j52k55q wrote

You could buy outside of Columbia Association. If it’s a county parcel, 6ft fences are allowed. At least that’s what everybody has in my neighborhood.

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Sure_Comparison6978 t1_j52t7b2 wrote

Yes and not that unusual. There are a lot more neighborhoods in Columbia that aren’t part of the CA than many realize. And you can easily find this out when you’re looking as these homes will proudly state “NO HOA!!” In their listing description.

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sinofmercy t1_j53j7j9 wrote

Yep my parents home is in one of the neighborhoods. Or I guess technically their house was built first so there was no HOA in place in the late 80s and it stayed that way.

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TwinPeaksNFootball t1_j550a4z wrote

It’s really easy when you are shopping for homes. If the houses next to the one you are interested in doesn’t have a 6 foot fence, then you will not be allowed to either.

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SquigglySquiddly t1_j522of3 wrote

Your other option is to buy an outparcel. You can tell which ones are not governed by CA because the street signs are green instead of blue.

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kris10185 OP t1_j524d9f wrote

Interesting, thanks, didn't know about that!

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pc81rd t1_j52zz43 wrote

Or buy in a non-HOA community in Ellicott City. There are a few. The real estate listings for houses being sold should indicate that there's no HOA.

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imani_TqiynAZU t1_j51rybw wrote

I have two dogs (both 60+ pounds) and a split rail fence. So far, no problems and I've been in this house for over two years. The owner before me also had a fairly large dog with no problems.

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I recommend buying a house that already had a fence, whether in Columbia or Ellicott City. This saved me some hassle.

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AKnitWit777 t1_j51wp7n wrote

That's a really good point--there are homes in Columbia and EC that already have fences. If you find a house with a fence, either the fence has already approved or it will be the seller's problem to get it approved.

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kris10185 OP t1_j520sbc wrote

A lot of the ones we have looked at don't have them at all or they aren't sufficient for our needs. It's harder than it sounds to find one with a fence already built, we've only seen maybe 3 out of the 40-50 houses we've toured!

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kris10185 OP t1_j51zth0 wrote

What HOA are you in? Is the fence 6ft?

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imani_TqiynAZU t1_j52fmqh wrote

I live in the Jeffers Hill neighborhood, part of Long Reach. I have no idea which HOA I'm in, because I've never had to deal with them.

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jules9687 t1_j52lim8 wrote

Sharing my experience with fencing from when we lived in Long Reach as a warning of how much CA hates fencing.

We bought a house with some 6 foot fencing on one side of the property. At closing we received the standard letter that the seller obtained from the village that blesses the property with no extant covenant violations.

7 years later we go to sell our house and obtain the same letter. We had done some exterior (non-fence) changes to the house while we were there but did all by the book with approvals and didn't expect issues. Long Reach decided they no longer liked the 6 foot fence and opted to withhold the letter from us, threatening the sale.

I can't say how thankful I was that Google Street view had a photo that included the 6 foot fence that was dated before our original purchase AND we had that letter from our purchase closing.

Long Reach still fought us over the fence, but they did eventually release a letter to us that had a special addendum re. the fence because of all the documentation we had. Long Reach also told us that they fought over the fencing because it was the only violation they could find on our property, and that they had to find something because they had received an anonymous type-written complaint about one of our previously-approved exterior changes.

Long story short, CA, Long Reach especially, HATES fencing.

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kris10185 OP t1_j52pevx wrote

This is very helpful thank you! That's so frustrating I'm sorry you went through such a hassle

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kevinxb t1_j5kew6p wrote

I have owned two homes in LR and I would not say CA hates fencing. There are specific guidelines, especially for fences, and the person handling letters of compliance in LR was issuing them incorrectly.

We had a similar issue with some landscape edging that we got a compliance letter for in 2011, but the village found it was not actually in our property file when we went to sell the home 6 years later. We had to reapply for it despite having photos that it was already there when we bought the house.

As for the complaint, the village is not even legally able to provide updates on a complaint to the person who made it in case it ends up going to court. So I'm not sure why they told you they "had to find something" just because someone made a complaint.

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Rashaverik t1_j533lhb wrote

Out of curiosity, when did you sell your home?

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jules9687 t1_j535520 wrote

About 4 years ago.

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Rashaverik t1_j53b9oe wrote

There was an issue with a past Covenant Advisor, probably the person who did the inspection for the original Letter you received when you purchased the house.

My own home was issued a Letter of Compliance back around 2010, and there were at least a dozen violations until we renovated much of the exterior. A LoC should have never been issued.

What it comes down to, the Covenant Advisors after the problem person, who handled the issuance of the LoCs were directed to correct past mistakes. Rather than admitting what had happened with the past Covenant Advisor. It was real easy to put the blame on the residents considering very few of them had images to back up their claims.

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jules9687 t1_j53cgi8 wrote

That's so messed up but was the impression we got of what was going on. I'm beyond thankful Google Street view came through for us.

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AKnitWit777 t1_j51magb wrote

You have to look at each HOA’s architectural guidelines. Some are stricter than others. Pain, I know.

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kris10185 OP t1_j51mi5c wrote

I've been having such a hard time finding all of them. Some I can with a Google search, some I can't. Even the ones I can find though it's so hard to be able to tell what actually would be approved

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imani_TqiynAZU t1_j51s1us wrote

Pick the house first. Then you will be sent the guidelines for the applicable HOA. Some are stricter than others.

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AKnitWit777 t1_j51wezo wrote

This. My first home in Columbia had three different HOAs and one was so detailed they got down to the off-brand paint color that they wanted me to paint my front step railings.

(Thank you Columbia Home Depot employee who color matched the HOA demanded paint to a Behr paint)

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kris10185 OP t1_j520co4 wrote

I know they would send the guidelines after we buy a house, but that would be too late. I would prefer not to bother touring homes if I know in advance that secure fencing is off the table

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imani_TqiynAZU t1_j52fio9 wrote

Good point.

I only looked at houses that already had a fence. Also, when I adopted my second dog, the Howard County Animal Shelter came and inspected the fence. They found that the split-rail fence was more than adequate.

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Gullible-Crab564 t1_j52h1to wrote

In my experience, we were given the set of covenants when we signed a contract to purchase a home. We had 3 days to fully review and ask any questions about the covenants with the option to back out of the contract during that window. I don’t know if that’s still the case.

That said, it sounds like the fencing for your doggos is a priority. So don’t get hung up on Columbia, check Ellicott City and nearby communities. You might find a more suitable home. Good luck!

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Rashaverik t1_j51u6sw wrote

Found this for you.

https://www.columbiaassociation.org/explore-columbia/columbia-villages/

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kris10185 OP t1_j520ihs wrote

Thank you! I've seen that website but I haven't been able to find all the details about fencing for each individual HOA. Some don't seem to be online anywhere

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Rashaverik t1_j52ga9u wrote

I'd say concentrate on finding a place. Then look into that particular village's guidelines. If it's even covered under a village. There are plenty of 'outparcels' which are independent of CA and the villages within Columbia. They don't have the same restrictions.

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kris10185 OP t1_j52ppuq wrote

Been trying it that way for 6 months or so and it's been frustrating to think a place looks great and then scour the internet to find guidelines only to discover it's not going to work for us because of fencing requirements. I was hoping for a way to narrow down where to look in the first place.

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ttsci t1_j52ulcd wrote

Since this is such a big deal breaker for you, I would suggest narrowing your search exclusively to Ellicott City and Columbia outparcels. There are a lot of lovely homes that are right on the edge of Columbia so you can easily use all the amenities and enjoy the general area. Columbia is a great place to live but you can get nearly the same experience living two miles away and not having to worry about your dogs.

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earnt1t t1_j57tngy wrote

Just try and stay out of a CA neighborhood if you can, plenty around the area that are outside of it but still in Columbia.

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f1sh98 t1_j51kz0f wrote

Back when we got our picket fence, some 20 years ago, the CA told us only split rail fences were allowed and we should put chicken wire on it if we wanted to keep kids and pets in the yard.

We basically told them to fuck off and got the picket fence. Dog still dug out sometimes and kids learn to escape eventually but for the most part it achieved its goal.

Edit: obligatory fuck HOAs

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kris10185 OP t1_j51l9ot wrote

There's no way those split rail fences would do it for our dogs, with or without chicken wire. I know a lot of Columbia HOAs seem to only want those. My dogs could jump over those EASILY.

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inline4addict t1_j54z6x7 wrote

Yeah it’s super hard to get anything but split rail fences. Columbia Association wants to make sure that Columbia has big open spaces for people and animals to roam around. That’s why it’s super difficult to get approved for anything else.

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ugottahvbluhair t1_j51pn6l wrote

That's the kind we were required to get. Luckily my dog doesn't have a desire to get out. She could clear it if she wanted to.

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veryfirst t1_j51r5fb wrote

We have chicken wire stapled onto our split rail fence which works. But any village will work with you if you want a fence.

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f1sh98 t1_j54twg9 wrote

Our dogs were never quite bright enough to jump over, despite us having a pile of firewood right on the fence line. The one dog did make a habit of digging out under frequently though. Every time he did we had to cover the spot with a paver and it just ended up being a miniature Berlin Wall

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Ultraxxx t1_j537xlc wrote

My experience is if you find a house, look at what type of fence the neighbors have, if everyone has the same style fence, that is likely what is required.

However, sometimes there are 2 different architectural styles mixed in one neighborhood. For instance the colonial style homes have one style, and another type of architecture across the street has another style fence. You probably can't mix and match.

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Wild_Song3681 t1_j569nmg wrote

If you have an outdoor pool or hot tub, you have to erect a fence as it’s considered an “attractive nuisance.” Something to consider, search for homes with those add-ons.

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