Connecticut Children's wants to spend $47 million on a parking garage in a city awash with parking

Submitted by bomgd3 t3_124w265 in Connecticut

https://www.courant.com/2023/03/27/connecticut-childrens-hartford-expansion-stirs-debate-with-47m-parking-garage/

This is just another great illustration about the costs of car/suburbia dependency on Hartford. Hartford has been decimated by the car. There's parking everywhere. Buses only run every 30 minutes and are rarely on time. Think of how much care could be provided for free or reduced cost for $47 million. Think of how many lives could be changed it the hospital could offer, for example, more subsidized medications or fresh foods or other benefits for the community. They could improve the health of the community by building or refurbishing run down playgrounds, or improving paths to school. There is so much more society can be doing other than building hulking parking garages. Incidentally I recently saw data that Hartford is has one of the lowest car ownership rates in the country - so who's that parking benefitting? Not the local community.

But nope. $47 million for a parking garage instead.

[addendum, because of course it's the internet so people misinterpret me]

I think instead of spending this enormous sum of money on parking, they should invest a MUCH smaller amount of money and effort into a more cohesive modern parking/transportation policy. This should mean appropriately pricing parking for employees and using market techniques to ensure that there is always parking available for families. They can aggressively price employee parking while promoting carpooling and transit use, especially since many people in healthcare have shifts that start at 7 AM and end at 7 PM. They can operate shuttles from the innumerable parking lots 1-2 miles away in the downtown core, again with a major financial kickback to the employees, and could even operate shuttles from park and rides from the suburbs (again, with a nice bonus for the employees who choose this option). There's a LOT of opportunity to encourage transit and carpooling with employees -- they have 2,000ish employees and $47,000,000 divided by 2,000 is over $20,000 per employee. There are so many things they can do to thoughtfully utilize the parking that already exists in the area, and save millions of dollars for the true mission of the hospital.

I'm not saying they should spend $0 on parking. But come on. They're spending $280 million on the hospital tower and $47 million on parking. That ratio seems way, way off. The hospital exists to serve people, not cars.

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SporkyForks2 t1_je15ckv wrote

That isn't how any of this works...

Hospitals = health care. They have nothing to do with revitalizing the city of Hartford.

It isn't their responsibility to run food banks or refurbish play grounds. They do research and provide care for children's health.

The garage will be used by the parents and people utilizing the facility. People need to start voting better to be able to have these things for the community.

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RobbieL241 t1_je2569q wrote

Also consider that on-call docs need to be able to find a parking space if they get called in. I work at Hartford Hospital, and we have spaces reserved for specific license plates to ensure that important staff can park.

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AvogadrosMoleSauce t1_je163xu wrote

>The garage will be used by the parents and people utilizing the facility. People need to start voting better to be able to have these things for the community.

So... the community needs to vote better in order for people who aren't part of the community to have somewhere to park?

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Mmmslash t1_je18hly wrote

No - the community needs to vote better so you don't lose these jobs to a smaller and more accommodating market, so they have nearby access to this resource.

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AvogadrosMoleSauce t1_je194qx wrote

How does having the jobs in the city benefit it? If the employees are just driving in, working, going home then they're not doing much to benefit it. In fact, with traffic and air pollution, they may cause the community more harm than good.

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Mmmslash t1_je19o8q wrote

Because those people spend the majority of their waking hours contributing to your local economy instead of someone else's. Because those people provide a nearby critical resource to your community. Because having educated health workers in your city is a universal benefit.

What an impossibly shortsighted take.

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RobbieL241 t1_je1atln wrote

You can both build a new parking garage and advocate for better public transportation.

If there was a commuter rail line that ran east of the river to Vernon, I'd absolutely take that over commuting.

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SporkyForks2 t1_je1cb82 wrote

How about the hospital just pulls out and moves some place else. Problem solved and your taxes will sky rocket. Time for the people living in Hartford to take some responsibility for how their peers are destroying the city. Not taking away what little resources exist to help the tax base.

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AvogadrosMoleSauce t1_je1ckas wrote

Hospitals don't contribute to the tax base.

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SporkyForks2 t1_je2tk15 wrote

You have no idea about taxes or life do you? Hence why you are probably financially in a hell hole and complaining about a children's hospital.

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AvogadrosMoleSauce t1_je2up5r wrote

Doing quite well, thanks for caring. Government buildings and non-profits are exempt from property taxes. About 59% of Hartford's property isn't taxed due to this, including the hospitals. In theory, PILOT would compensate for this, but in addition to undervaluing property it has never been fully funded.

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bomgd3 OP t1_je172to wrote

There is a ton of parking in the area already. Hartford has been decimated by parking. The money could really be better used. Part of the hospital's role should be to improve the health of its community. In fact I'd argue it is their primary responsibility. It's why hospitals get extensive tax breaks and other preferential treatment. I think most people in healthcare could tell you, the systemic and environmental factors are enormous factors in the health of the community. Money wisely spent on public health is probably vastly more effective than money spent on... A parking garage

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Kolzig33189 t1_je1bxb7 wrote

As someone who worked in HH until 2017, there isn’t enough parking right near the hospital to support the massive amount of staff such a huge complex requires, as well as patients/visitors. Several times when I would go into the hospital as a civilian to visit someone, I would have to park maybe 9-10 blocks away. That’s fine for me, but many people can’t do that (patients/people coming in for treatment) or don’t feel safe walking 10 blocks through Hartford at night. And those times weren’t even peak hours.

The whole premise of your argument is wrong. I can’t tell you how many patients I had complained that they either had to sit and wait for someone to leave and hope they got to the spot first or had to walk a half mile or more.

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bomgd3 OP t1_je1eee0 wrote

$47M is over $20,000 per employee

Hypothetically: What if they gave each employee $5000 but then charged each employee $200/month to park on site, or the employees could park for free or nominal cost at a more distant lot served by a shuttle?

The congestion going to and from the hospital is already insane. Hartford needs more modern, thoughtful transportation solutions.

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Kolzig33189 t1_je1gpe0 wrote

So once again, why is that HH responsibility to fix what the legislature of Hartford can’t do? You already failed to answer that when I asked before on why it’s HH’s responsibility to grow fresh fruit for the towns populace among other things you mentioned.

Your laughable solution is only geared towards the employees. Wouldn’t do anything about visitors and patients who also need a massive amount of parking spots.

Not to mention how does charging employees to park out of an extra stipend solve the perceived problem you have of there’s too much parking? Nearly all employees will still continue to commute because lack of buses (especially for 2nd and 3rd shifters) or the convenience of having a car where you can do other errands after work, not waiting for a late bus, etc. You clearly haven’t thought any of this through other than being very passionate about it.

Edit: just read on another post you claim to have went to UConn med…come on man, based on your illogical responses you’ve given to everyone and lack of even the slightest common sense, that’s really hard to believe. Also that a doc would have no problem with making kids on crutches, coming in for various treatments, or temporarily disabled people having to walk half a mile to get to the hospital. Bringing a child to the hospital or even routine treatment is stressful enough; the last thing those parents need is to fight for a parking spot or walk a far distance on the street. That’s a big F You to patients.

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SporkyForks2 t1_je1cjxo wrote

Maybe it is time for those in the community of Hartford to step up and take responsibility for their fellow community members who have destroyed the city.

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maxanderson350 t1_je14b78 wrote

If CCMC wants a parking garage for its growing workforce, then I don't see any concern with it. Hartford is incredibly lucky to have CCMC invest in the city and the city should be encouraging as much development as possible.

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AvogadrosMoleSauce t1_je15wyf wrote

> Hartford is incredibly lucky

How is this lucky?

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maxanderson350 t1_je17vxe wrote

Hartford is lucky to have an institution like CCMC in the city that is interested in expanding in the city, rather than expanding in a place like Farmington.

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AvogadrosMoleSauce t1_je18cpu wrote

How is that lucky, though? CCMC doesn't pay taxes to the city. Where it's expending will be even more dollars off of the city's tax rolls. By adding parking the Hospital seems to want to contribute to congestion and air pollution that actual residents and community members have to deal with.

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maxanderson350 t1_je1lhfn wrote

Local jobs, employees and visitors frequenting local hotels/restaurants/businesses, prestige, access to medical care, less empty/barren space, encouragement for people in live in hartford

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berlinyachtclub t1_je19oit wrote

Anecdotal but I had to take my baby there (for a relatively stressful ordeal) and parking was a nightmare. Garages were full, street parking was nonexistent.

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fileknotfound t1_je181tx wrote

People come from all across the state to CCMC, the residents of Hartford are not the only ones who use the hospital. It may be true that there is technically tons of parking in Hartford, but that doesn’t mean any of it is accessible to patients of the hospital.

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RobbieL241 t1_je1alxv wrote

With all due respect, parking is extremely limited for Hartford Hospital and CT Children's. There are folks who have to park at the end of Hudson St near Pulaski Circle, several blocks away from campus, then take a shuttle to the hospitals proper.

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bomgd3 OP t1_je1chlc wrote

Right, I went to med school at UConn so I recall the parking and traffic situation well. In fact I rode my bike to my rotations at Hartford Hospital most of the time because traffic was so frustrating, and winding up and down 5-6 floors of parking garage was a totally awful experience especially at rush hour.

I think instead of spending this enormous sum of money on parking, they should invest a MUCH small amount of money and effort into a more cohesive modern parking/transportation policy. This should mean appropriately pricing parking for employees and using market techniques to ensure that there is always parking available for families. They can aggressively price employee parking while promoting carpooling and transit use, especially since many people in healthcare have shifts that start at 7 AM and end at 7 PM. They can operate shuttles from the innumerable parking lots 1-2 miles away in the downtown core, again with a major financial kickback to the employees. There's a LOT of opportunity to encourage transit and carpooling with employees -- they have 2,000ish employees and $47,000,000 divided by 2,000 is over $20,000 per employee. There are so many things they can do to thoughtfully utilize the parking that already exists in the city, and save millions of dollars for the true mission of the hospital.

I'm not saying they should spend $0 on parking. But come on. They're spending $280 million on the hospital tower and $47 million on parking. That ratio seems way, way off. The hospital exists to serve people, not cars.

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Miles_vel_Day t1_je1y6ya wrote

I agree with you that the city needs to vastly improve its transit network, and people from the immediate area getting to the hospital without using their cars would be great. But $47 million wouldn't really get you that much in terms of building out your transit, unfortunately. The first stage of the Fastrak line alone cost $600 million...

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afapracing t1_je1810o wrote

A new parking garage that frees up real estate for other developments doesn’t sound as negative as you’re implying. Building up instead of out is a win-win.

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Kolzig33189 t1_je16f9v wrote

Why is it the hospitals responsibility to provide fresh fruits/veggies to the local community? Or build playgrounds? Or any of the other things you mention? And why would them building a garage even prohibit them from doing that in the first place should they choose to do those things?

Facts are that CT children’s hospital is a massive location: workers need somewhere to park (people work all kinds of shifts and buses don’t run 24 hours), people visiting or patients also need places to park.

Also it’s kind of amusing you bring up the fact that buses in Hartford are always late and then wonder why people don’t like to use them.

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Toroceratops t1_je16v26 wrote

Where should families visiting their hospitalized children park? Because there are exactly 2 children’s hospitals in Connecticut, meaning the hospital serves fae more than just Hartford.

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Ducksilver t1_je1b98n wrote

  1. Bringing an unwell or injured child to the doctor/hospital is hard enough. Parking should not be a hassle for families.
  2. Visiting a child in the hospital is hard enough. If anything can be done to make it easier for families to be together during a child’s illness, let’s do that.
  3. Nurses and hospital staff just worked through the pandemic, and someone wants to take away their free parking? Are you kidding me? Let’s get them to work on time without adding unnecessary stress. They’re caring for sick kids, jeez.
  4. Other than Hartford Hospital and CCMC, no one is building anything in that neighborhood. Some of the buildings on/near that campus are super old and shabby—as hospitals increasingly merge into larger networks, let’s not incentivize them to move services to their suburban locations to avoid the cost of upkeep/rehabbing the older buildings.
  5. Article didn’t seem to say anything about how much parking would cost for patients/families. Making families pay $$$ just to visit their loved ones in the hospital sucks. Anyone who has had a long-term illness in the family and a pile of hospital parking receipts in the console of their car knows what I’m talking about. It’s a regressive tax on the sick.
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Paul_Thrush t1_je1vhmf wrote

Connecticut Children's Hospital is a private business, not a government agency. They're only responsible for the hospital, not all those other functions you mention.

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Phantastic_Elastic t1_je22d07 wrote

I had my son there for an appt and that parking garage was slammed. I agree with you in principle on the tyranny of cars, but I felt lucky to even find a spot, and the garage was so jammed and old that it all felt kind of scary.

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silasmoeckel t1_je1c4oe wrote

Ever parked there it's a nightmare. What do you expect people to do drop little timmy off on crutches and tell them to wait there while mom/dad finds parking and walks back? Here is an idea let's put immunocompromised timmy on the bus for an hour.

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Flimsy_Patience_7780 t1_je1gr5i wrote

I agree that some of that money could definitely be reallocated, and that $47 mil for a parking garage is a little excessive. Definitely need to rebudget that.

However, I do not agree with your idea of aggressively pricing employee parking. Healthcare professionals work their assess off. They work long 12 hour shifts, making not nearly enough for what they’re actually worth most of the time. Many of those nurses, doctors, techs, they don’t want to screw around with public transportation after a physically, mentally, and emotionally exhausting day. Your idea of aggressively pricing parking for a demographic that is already overworked and underpaid seems punitive and grossly unfair to people who do nothing but give of themselves and their skills.

Rather than such a financially punitive approach, how about offer positive incentives. Hospitals could give additional benefits or stipends for individuals who carpool or choose to use public transportation. I believe those things will be much more fruitful than cornering healthcare professionals into a decision that costs them more money they don’t have.

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bomgd3 OP t1_je1h21a wrote

Hypothetically what if they gave $5,000 to each employee and then charged $200/month for on-site parking versus free or nominal fee off site parking? I'm a health care worker. I worked my ass off through the pandemic and I work 12 hour shifts. I'd take that bargain in an instant.

If pricing and incentives were well calibrated and (extremely importantly) well communicated, I bet magically there would be plenty of on site parking for employees who want it, patients, and less congestion down Main and Washington. Adding more parking would actually worsen the horrible congestion on those roads at peak hours.

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Keisar13 t1_je1lsct wrote

I agree there needs to be something done to make Hartford more walkable, as well as drastic improvements to public transportation, in order to decrease the dependence on cars and get more cars off the road. I disagree that a hospital should have anything to do with this, and indeed, they will always require parking on site in a big way. Sick people and people from out of town frequent the hospital and there needs to be immediate accommodation for them. The worst thing you can do for an argument you’re passionate about is argue it poorly and that is what you’ve done. I think plenty of people would be happy with reliable, fast, clean, and cheap public transportation, but I don’t think demanding it from a hospital is going to get you many people on your side. Might be something you organize for and put pressure on elected officials, who’s jobs it is to improve the city/state and make things easier and better for their constituents.

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nuttmegganarchist t1_je158sz wrote

I wonder if it’s possible to have a parking garage that also has small store fronts or something on some of the bottom level. Or like a solar panel farm on the very top.

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JaKr8 t1_je1xgn9 wrote

There are times you just cannot get a spot. This is important to the needs of families with kids.

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houle333 t1_je2p2qo wrote

Someone get the op one of those bracelets for the EMT's to read

"if injured do not transport. must ride bike to hospital"

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Miles_vel_Day t1_je1x4rt wrote

I do construction estimates professionally, so I theoretically know where all the money is going, but god damn, I can still not believe what it costs to build stuff. And the inflation is nuts, a structure like that probably would've cost less than a quarter as much 20 years ago.

I kind of have a philosophy re: public works projects that, hey, the money isn't getting flushed down the toilet, it's all going to workers getting paid the prevailing wage, engineers, contractors; all that money is getting spent in the economy, it all works as economic stimulus so ultimately, whether that stimulus is $10 million or $47 million, you still have a parking garage at the end.

But still $47 million, ugh, why. It's a pile of concrete.

The city's goal for the surface lots is to put real development on them, at which point it will need more parking structures than it has now. Whether this is putting the court before the horse, eh, I dunno, but other commenters do say they've had difficulty parking in the area.

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solomons-marbles t1_je1hkj9 wrote

And you want to know why your medical bills are so high?

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Gooniefarm t1_je1prgz wrote

Hospitals are like every other business. All they care about is profits. They're not going to spend tens of millions millions on anything that won't make them money.

Parking garage will probably bring in huge money from parking fees.

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MeasureTheCrater t1_je13ruq wrote

...because why should Saint Francis have all the fun?!

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AvogadrosMoleSauce t1_je15e6e wrote

Thankfully there are good people, like the NRZ head, to push back against this crap.

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HighJeanette t1_je17pq6 wrote

Why do kids get to vote on a budget?

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