Yale

Submitted by thug_nificent t3_10hf32v in Connecticut

How do people feel about Yale being in Connecticut? Does the creation of so many jobs and the ability to attract talent outweigh the severe under-contribution in terms of taxes?

I’m new-ish to the New Haven area and find the relationship between Yale and its surroundings quite interesting.

EDIT: I didn’t write this out super well — it’s clearly a good thing, but isn’t the underinvestment in the local area, given the extreme concentration of talent, kind of… unsettling? I also think it would be in Yale’s best interest to develop the city, to help staff retention.

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igetmoneyyuhuurd t1_j58bzut wrote

New Haven is nothing and I mean nothing without Yale

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CompasslessPigeon t1_j5g576h wrote

New Haven is nothing BECAUSE of Yale. They have slowly bought up property all around that city and pay next to nothing in taxes. The city is starving, can’t properly fund public services and social services as a result. Jobs are great but what would be greater is if they paid tax to the city out of the 50 billion dollar endowment

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igetmoneyyuhuurd t1_j5g7u4c wrote

And if it wasn’t for yale all that property they bought would be vacant and abandoned like Bridgeport

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[deleted] t1_j584yz0 wrote

Yale is a good thing for New Haven and CT

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fraxinus2000 t1_j5ajw9j wrote

True- the inquiry seems to be, could it be better for New Haven?

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ZestyItalian2 t1_j58dyyq wrote

I don’t think you’d like New Haven very much if you subtracted Yale

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solomons-marbles t1_j588c2l wrote

If it weren’t for Yale, NH would be like Bridgeport.

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ZestyItalian2 t1_j58eak4 wrote

It would be much worse. Bridgeport abuts against the Gold Coast so there are several lovely upscale neighborhoods near the Fairfield border. Bridgeport is also on the seaside so has a charming shoreline and ocean breezes. New Haven without Yale would make Bridgeport look like Westport by comparison.

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Advanced-Sun-2200 t1_j58b99n wrote

Agreed. NH still has a lot of drugs & gangs. I've heard some crazy stuff goes on out there

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welcomebackjelly t1_j584znd wrote

Absolutely it’s a good thing. They could pay no taxes and that would be fine with me. It’s an ivy legue school in our state, bringing top tier talent into our state. Why would that be bad

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drjoshthewash t1_j58fvgs wrote

While driving the local economy, generating an entire economic ecosystem that generates enormous revenues for the state, local jobs, could go on. It's hard to overstate the positive impact Yale the school and their medical facilities have on the area.

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thug_nificent OP t1_j58cdqu wrote

I don’t think any reasonable person would say it’s bad. But I feel there’s a disconnect between having such a high concentration of talent on the doorstep of a city that could desperately use it

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welcomebackjelly t1_j58ci11 wrote

That’s how every college town is. Why would top tier talent that makes well over 6 figures the day they graduate opt to stay in a gross place when they can afford to live in a nice one?

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lolaya t1_j58vufq wrote

But still, plenty of yale graduates stay in New haven or surrounding ct areas

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thesbaine t1_j585rmd wrote

Having Yale is a net positive. While I'd like for them to pay a small amount more in taxes, I think they bring way more than just money.

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lolaya t1_j58vwde wrote

How much more? They are paying 22million each year.

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drjoshthewash t1_j58f21m wrote

It's not really a question. Yale is an enormous positive to New Haven and CT.

Their 'severe under-contribution' ultimately contributes benefits and resources that far outweigh and out-contribute whatever would be generated in its absence.

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Bismarck_Da_Otto_Von t1_j5ainzq wrote

Yale is a walled garden within New Haven--might as well be Connecticut's own Forbidden City.

Does the institution add economic/social/educational/medical value to the state and region? Sure. Their endowment is literally the GDP of Egypt or UAE---how could they not add "value" being the elephant in the room? They are a world unto themselves.

But let's not overstate how great Yale is to the residents of New Haven proper. Considering that it is home to Yale, the city still shockingly resembles Bridgeport in crime and poverty...but Bridgeport's population is actually growing. City of New Haven's population has been flat for 30 years. That fact alone should hint at how "great" it is to host Yale when you're New Haven.

Yale has a "free rider" problem. Sure, they kick some dollars to the city. But we're talking about a $42 billion dollar institution that pays (checks notes)....$22M a year to the city? That's a rounding error if you're Yale. Chump change.

They hold billions of dollars' worth of property in the city and most of it is NOT on the property tax rolls. Where are municipalities supposed to get their revenue for city services? Property taxes, primarily.

IMHO, Yale's a jewel in the Connecticut crown but not a great partner for the city that hosts them. Not so different from all the other shiny universities located in or near beleaguered areas.

"But New Haven would be worse off without us!" - spoken like the abusive partner in a marriage.

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drjoshthewash t1_j5kuzyr wrote

I agree with much of what you say. I also like your username. A few points you may or may not disagree with.

  1. Inasmuch as you consider it a walled garden, they employ thousands of local residents, and that count goes to tens of thousands if you count subcontractor and Yale related economic activities. Both directly and via subcontractors, construction jobs, vast medical system, and more.

  2. You have to consider whether Yale occupies spaces and economic opportunity that would otherwise flourish in its absence or whether whatever economic activity is there due to in large part Yales presence.

  3. Regarding Yale's lack of community presence. Is that Yales fault, or the fault of the area lack of opportunity presented to Yales gifted and high achieving alumni. This particular complaint smells of idealistic wishful thinking that isn't grounded in any reality or economic realities.

  4. Do you think if offered to host Yale, Bridgeport wouldn't offer tax free accommodations and more? Put another way, look not 15 miles west to Bridgeport, and their crumbling, vacant, shuttered, ruined, downtown. Do you think New Haven would have fared differently? Look at Hartford, Waterbury, Meriden, Derby, can go on. These towns went one way, save for one.

  5. I'd be curious what specific actual policies you would support from the municipality imposing on Yale or vice versa to help any of these issues.

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asshat_deluxe t1_j58iewe wrote

I don't live in new haven but I have been to New Haven many times and taken advantage of the Yale NH hospital. I owe my son's life to them so yeah..I'm biased. In my experience hey are great for the city. They provide jobs at the school and hospital. Good jobs for the area, and of course people spend some dollars in NH, including the students (Drinkin). They can't fix everything in New Haven and urban renewal is not their responsibility. Can they help more, probably, are their coffers deep, yeah but urban renewal is the responsibility of the city, state, and feds. New Haven needs some heavy lifting

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thug_nificent OP t1_j58nbxa wrote

Glad your son is doing well! I understand that. It’s not their responsibility, you’re right, unless they were otherwise extractive in their presence here. Which they don’t seem to be, but I wasn’t sure.

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fraxinus2000 t1_j5ak43p wrote

Yale New Haven hospital and Yale University are distinct entities

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pelliosophelus t1_j5a5q7b wrote

15 years ago NH was absolutely 1000x worse than now. Yale made a conscious effort to buy up lots of the slums, rehab the homes, and then offer them at good rates to staff and profs to encourage a middle class. It has worked. New Haven now has not only a solid middle class of residents but nice restaurants and other services that have moved in to serve them. I think your understanding of the effect Yale has had and continues to have on New Haven is misplaced.

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thug_nificent OP t1_j5aztbx wrote

I wasn’t aware of such a stark difference just 15 years ago, thanks!

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houseonthehilltop t1_j5gelwm wrote

It has been said - although I cannot verify - that Yale also offers some type of financial incentives to certain retail/ restaurants businesses etc in the city as they are anne iTunes also for the the university.

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IndicationOver t1_j582cxd wrote

This is your first time noticing this before? Here is link since I don't feel like writing an essay on the topic.

https://www.quora.com/Why-are-elite-universities-in-the-US-surrounded-by-poor-communities

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thug_nificent OP t1_j582nrl wrote

I am curious, though, how locals feel about the presence of the university. Net positive?

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zubv t1_j583ran wrote

I mean isn't the only nice area around Yale anyway? A lot of blight and poverty in other spots. It's sad. I go a couple times a year and there isn't anything there that would make me want to live there.

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lolaya t1_j58vy61 wrote

Not really true. East rock and wooster is pretty nice and growing a lot

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Soul_blazer84 t1_j58f2op wrote

You would not have moved to the NH area if it wasn’t for Yale.

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lolaya t1_j58vrnc wrote

Underinvestment? Yale provides tens of millions each year in payments to new haven for the lack of tax revenue.

Actually, its exactly 22.5 million per year that yale is paying new haven for a total of 135m for 6 years

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whodattguy t1_j5d033u wrote

I think the argument is that they should be paying >100 million per year. So why not raise it to improve the rest of the city which would benefit Yale as well.

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Jets237 t1_j59z702 wrote

Yale has been around since 1701…. Yale is New Haven and New Haven is Yale….

I have no clue what New Haven would look like without Yale…

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WestRiverTraveler t1_j5a02b4 wrote

There is always a tension between major urban universities and the communities. Harvard in Cambridge, BU and Northeastern in Boston (especially Northeastern in recent years.) Without a doubt, the schools are a net positive for the communities. I don't think Yale has ANY problem with staff retention. Well compensated professors can live in one of the several beautiful neighborhoods on NH and send their kids to Hopkins, etc or live in one the suburbs. Guilford, an absolutely classic NE town, is a 20 minute commute to Yale. Woodbridge is 15 minutes.

Yale invests a fair amount in the community. I am a NH public school teacher. They have an amazing partnership with the magnet performing arts high school as well as number of other programs.

I'll tell you this - I would not be living in CT if not for Yale. I relocated from Boston ~ 2 years ago. I would not have left Boston with being close to a city that had a lot to offer. Because of Yale, New Haven does. Without it, yeah, it's Bridgeport.

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thug_nificent OP t1_j5b02ui wrote

I do think there is a staff retention issue at the faculty level — professors don’t mind working here, but options for spouses are limited

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PendingPolymath t1_j5asz3r wrote

Yale is annoying at times, but New Haven is ultimately better for having them. I do think the city should just make them pay taxes though. They can easily afford to pay them. I don't care about some stupid ancient agreement between the city and Yale.

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wherehaveubeen t1_j5awafv wrote

Without Yale New Haven would be Bridgeport

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HenryTheFjord t1_j5bwo85 wrote

I grew up near Harvard and MIT. The areas surrounding the schools are in high demand from both graduates and the general public. I personally think it’s odd how Yale is surrounded by areas that most Yale grads won’t to make their permanent home. It’s a huge loss to CT that YALE isn’t required to do A PILOT (payment in lieu of taxes) to help their community at large.

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Helpful-Witness-5375 t1_j5i3b2v wrote

Yale does make a PILOT to New Haven. Maybe the payment should be larger, and maybe New Haven needs to manage its money better.

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Avocadomistress t1_j5fno8f wrote

New Haven is the ONLY Connecticut city on the map in terms of outside interest. Without Yale, New Haven is nothing. CT is lucky to have such a top notch ivy league and medical brand in its borders. Its not perfect for the area, but look at Bridgeport or Hartford 🤷‍♂️

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QueenOfQuok t1_j58x485 wrote

Yale is in Connecticut? I keep forgetting. I always think of it as this separate, far-off place, somewhere unspecified, impossible to find upon a map, unless the masters of the university send you a secret key to unlock a door hidden behind an oak tree...or something, I don't know.

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as1126 t1_j5a6i3l wrote

It's listed as the top 3 prestigious universities on the planet year after year. It's incredibly desirable and any city would be glad to have that level of prestige. It's always going to be a net positive for the city (and, indirectly, the state) to have that.

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JasJoeGo t1_j5gu7de wrote

The argument over whether Yale’s not paying taxes outweighs the way it helps keep downtown New Haven vibrant ignores a huge issue in Connecticut: home rule cities. This debate wouldn’t be an issue if New Haven’s tax base included all the surrounding towns that benefit from New Haven without contributing, just like in Hartford. Right now, Yale is simultaneously a drain on the tax base and a source of employment, the arts, and spur to entertainment and nightlife that is great for the city. If city tax bases included suburbs that already benefit from our cities the whole debate goes away.

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Silver_shoots t1_j5h4ann wrote

Yale isn’t going anywhere, so tax them!

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shhhshaunna t1_j5hbik0 wrote

It would be great if more Yale grads ended up staying in CT and ventured outside of the New Haven bubble.

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thug_nificent OP t1_j5hgstv wrote

I agree. I have seen schemes elsewhere where student debt goes away if you work in the city for 5 years after graduating

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drjoshthewash t1_j5kvhrd wrote

I'd be curious if that program would be effective for graduates of the most highly ranked university in the country, where initial job offers out of school rank among the very best.

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thug_nificent OP t1_j5mvzje wrote

Good point. The very top performers would leave, but I imagine many undergrads with less in-demand majors might stay. Whether their training would add much to the city’s development is hard to say, but I imagine it would still be significant and positive.

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Plusdebeurre t1_j5l73h5 wrote

If you lived in New Haven, you’d soon realize that Yale is the primary reason why New Haven has a difficult time developing. It’s kind of hard to do much when you’re shorted on 60% of your property tax revenue every year. And very few ppl from Yale stay in NH after graduating, so it’s not like the city gains from having the school there in the form of innovation/investment/workforce. Yale isn’t for locals.

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coastal_girl14 t1_j67pqg6 wrote

I used to work in New Haven. Granted it's been a few years but the city government was um, seriously corrupt. In order to be considered for city contracts, certain donations needed to be made in sufficient quantities to certain campaign funds. So Yale may be a problem but the city "leaders" were also an issue.

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FinnbarMcBride t1_j5ceesa wrote

What exactly do you think Yale should be doing differently?

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thug_nificent OP t1_j5cn09q wrote

Some others have mentioned in this thread — (1) they are an order of magnitude short on tax payments, by yales own calculations (2) PILOT (payment in lieu of taxes) to keep grads in the area, (3) partnering with local govt (housing authorities, etc) and NGOs to share expertise pro bono. The law school does this in the form of legal clinics — many other departments can do the same. Just some ideas.

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catbirdgrey t1_j5ogfbh wrote

Also there are so many medical specialty schools and that is really helpful if you need medical care and don't have decent insurance!

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MongooseProXC t1_j58kfjj wrote

I like Yale They seem to take less tax payer subsidies than UConn.

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lolaya t1_j58w1o8 wrote

Well that would only make sense… considering yale is a private school and UConn is a public STATE school

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StepVanity t1_j5afni1 wrote

Seems to me both are going the wrong way. Yale is a progressive brain-washing institution and New Haven is woke and a sanctuary city bringing us down to the LCD.

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thug_nificent OP t1_j588bzg wrote

I agree with most of what’s been said about Yale attracting talent — but I think it’s a shame that almost none of the students stay here after graduating. Just think how NH could be if Yale invested more in developing it — partly for selfish reasons, so they also don’t lose staff and faculty to universities in more attractive cities.

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[deleted] t1_j589emc wrote

[deleted]

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thug_nificent OP t1_j58bm6m wrote

Interesting, thanks for this perspective. I didn’t consider that the out migration of talent might be just fine.

There’s still something that rubs me the wrong way about so many talented social scientists and public policy graduates being totally detached from a city that could use that expertise. It’s like there’s an aversion to applying what they’ve learned right on their doorstop

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drjoshthewash t1_j58fjv3 wrote

This is idealistic musings. Alot of things would be great. That's totally irrelevant to the discussion at hand - is Yale good for New Haven and the state. A borderline ridiculous question at that.

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lolaya t1_j58w442 wrote

How do you know no one stays? Plenty of health professional students and others do too. Do you have stats on this?

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thug_nificent OP t1_j5b0a30 wrote

Yale health vs Yale university are totally different beasts. Yale university attracts good faculty but they often leave because 1) tenure rates are low 2) limited job options for spouses. I don’t have stats but just know the system

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zizouz13 t1_j586yp1 wrote

Lol as if this state needs more taxes to fund our politicians pockets and not have it go to any use. At least Yale produces some top tier professionals and attracts elite students

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entwicklung46 t1_j586izt wrote

IMO Yale is like an “old money” thing, pretty much just a name at this point

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