Advice on Tiling over Vinyl Tiles

Submitted by RatWithChainsawLegs t3_yf06xc in DIY

Hi folks,

I'm going to attempt to tile (24 x 6 wood-look ceramic) over an old vinyl (mixed with notorious material that starts with asbes and ends with tos) floor in our very small mudroom. I know for certain that the floor contains the aforementioned material and I have no interest in removing it if I can avoid it at all. I'm decently handy (a lot of woodworking experience) but don't have any significant tile experience. I just wanted to check in here and see if I'm right about the process.

So if Im correct, and the floor is decently sturdy (which it is), and we won't be moving anything extremely heavy like a piano over it (which we couldn't even if we wanted to) I can just:

  1. Clean the floor
  2. Patch (there is a small break in the tile in one spot about 4x4) and apply a primer (like TEC® Multipurpose Primer 560)
  3. Trowel a layer of a polymer modified thinset mortar onto the floor and lay down an uncoupling underlayment roll to prevent movement transfer from the substrate (like Prova-Flex)
  4. Cut, dry lay and number tiles (the room is not square so I assume dry laying is the way to go)
  5. Use another layer of polymer modified thinset mortar over the Prova-Flex and set tiles
  6. Use a rubber mallet and a leveling tool to make sure tiles are all flush
  7. Grout and apply grout sealer

Thanks so much for any advice on this! I've looked pretty extensively on YouTube and Reddit for instructions, but I'm still feeling uncertain and just want to get another set of eyes on the plan before proceeding.

Also, just incase it's helpful to know, the current vinyl tile is installed over a ply underlayment floor.

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Comments

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Valendorf t1_iu0x9pj wrote

I’d use a decoupling membrane. Schluter is the name brand, but there’s a couple competitors. The one I used in my basement was Dural Durabase.

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RatWithChainsawLegs OP t1_iu18ega wrote

That's the current plan, thank you for confirming this part.

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Valendorf t1_iu19pqg wrote

Reading is super hard for me apparently. I totally skimmed over that in your post. :D

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RatWithChainsawLegs OP t1_iu1a76t wrote

No worries, glad to hear that you recommend the same thing! : )

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Valendorf t1_iu1c21d wrote

I had tons of cracks and problems with the concrete in the basement. I tiled over the membrane and haven’t had any cracks transfer through and it’s been about 10 years so far. Between that and the tile lashes it’s the only way I’ll tile.

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RatWithChainsawLegs OP t1_iu1hy4n wrote

Hell yeah, this is what I want to hear, especially since I'm planning to technically break the rules and go over these tiles. For Tile Lashes, you're talking about these guys?

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Valendorf t1_iu1pvub wrote

Yeah. As a non professional they kept all the corners of the tile on the same level for me. Had a hard time when I did a tiny bathroom without them and there’s 1 or 2 tiles that have a corner slightly raised that you notice when your bare foot drags across it. In the 1500 sqft of tile I did in the basement I don’t have a single one poking up.

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foodlover516 t1_iu1mzsr wrote

I ran into this same problem. Schluter all-set (Schluter's thinset that is rated to go both above and below the orange schluter uncoupling membrane) specifically calls out that it is not rated to go over old vinyl tiles. Instead of taking up the old asbestos tiles I bought some really thin plywood, like <1/4" or so, and cut and screwed it down with about a billion screws. That gave me a very sturdy new subfloor that I installed the uncoupling membrane over.

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Justbu1ldit t1_iu16tme wrote

Can you handle the extra height of a layer of 1/4 durock concrete board in that room?

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RatWithChainsawLegs OP t1_iu187rc wrote

Potentially, but what I'm seeing online about using an uncoupling membrane in place of cement board makes it seem like the thinner uncoupling membrane would be a better choice for what I'm doing because it will reduce the effects of minor movement of the material beneath the tile. Seems like the cement board will telegraph and movement or weaknesses directly up to the tile.

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DriftinFool t1_iu1hwlz wrote

I don't think a membrane is enough over a vinyl. A membrane is only used over a properly installed substrate and old vinyl flooring is definitely not a proper substrate. 1/4" durock or hardi board are what you should use. Thinset will not bond well to the vinyl and will start cracking as the vinyl expands/contracts with temperature. I've been doing tile a long time I would never go over vinyl with it. Way back in the day before concrete board and membranes, we still wouldn't put tile over vinyl. We would have used a layer of 1/4" luan. Screwing down another layer also insures the subfloor is solid.

You also need to make sure the floor is perfectly flat when using the tile you are using. Due to the length of them, any high spots will cause major headaches at the joints. The bigger the tile, the more perfect the floor needs to be. You can use a large notch trowel for a thicker mortar bed to compensate some.

As for dry laying, it rarely works out and there is really no need for it. You don't start at an edge. You start in the middle. Find the center of the room and break the room into 4 equal squares. Start at the center and work your way to the wall. in a stair step pattern to keep the tiles running square. Figure out how many tiles( the 6" side) it takes to go from the center to the wall. If the cut at the wall is less than half a tile, shift your starting point a half tile over the center line. This will make your cuts at the wall all be over half tiles instead of little slivers.

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Justbu1ldit t1_iu1a4a4 wrote

I guess it all depends on the floor joists and subfloor. The stuff did wonders for me, not a grout line crack, let alone a broken tile in a kitchen/dining, 2 baths and an entry area. Lots of screws, fiber tape and thinset joints. Good luck my man!

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