Submitted by dingustotalicus t3_ya5lxo in DIY
Hi all, how do I light this pilot? There's too much air flowing back to light it how I thought I was supposed to. Do i open the pilot-valve more?
Comments
dingustotalicus OP t1_it9orbc wrote
Honestly that's my biggest concern. This (new to me) landlord is apparently pretty shady with this kind of stuff.
RyanFrank t1_it9uj38 wrote
Tell your landlord to fix your shit and if they don't then report their ass
LawTeaDough t1_itbul8q wrote
Yeah. Having a working heating system is your constitutional right as a tenant. So many people fix up their landlords place for free like a chump.
Eupion t1_ita4gw2 wrote
You do have a carbon monoxide alarm, right? Since it could be a huge problem, not having an alarm would just make that worse.
dingustotalicus OP t1_ita8cvk wrote
Good point! There's one in each room. I'll test the batteries to make sure everything's kosher
slothlovereddit t1_itab5n5 wrote
Smoke detectors or carbon monoxide detectors? Most rooms have smoke detectors but they aren't always CO detector combos. It should say what it is somewhere on the unit
hicow t1_itayua2 wrote
Shouldn't CO detectors be low on the walls, being CO's heavier than air?
Silenthitm4n t1_itb6zu4 wrote
No. It’s slightly lighter than air but the difference is so small height makes no difference.
It’s recommended that they are installed at least 6” below ceiling level and above any doors or windows due to air flow.
HolycommentMattman t1_itbt4sh wrote
Check your exact model. Each one have different specifications. The truth is that CO detection has improved considerably in the last 30 years, and the sensors no longer work by "soaking in" X amount of CO, so many are perfectly fine being installed on the ceilling.
I know I installed brand new detectors, and they detected output of CO by our old furnace. Forced air is pretty turbulent, so it's not like all the CO is just gonna flow consistently to one place. Think of it like having a pitcher of oil and water perfectly separated. Pouring it into a new container will not maintain that perfect separation. Same thing for air, but the effect is even more pronounced.
And CO is lighter than air, so you would expect it to rise eventually anyway.
JeansAndAPolo t1_itbpvia wrote
I've usually seen them mounted about eye level on the wall. I think the idea is that the density is close enough that elevation isn't necessary. And having them at eye level makes it easier and more likely to regularly change the batteries.
PlasmaSheep t1_itck7bc wrote
Yeah, I usually just let my smoke alarms beep every 30 seconds for weeks until they die rather than just change the batteries.
Elk-Tamer t1_itbaoim wrote
If you think about it, and that's a huge simplification, the weight of the elements is like this: C<N<O. Now, our air consists primarily of N2 and O2. CO consists of one of the lighter atoms and one of the heavier atoms. The average weight is around the level of N2, but lighter than O2. Meaning, it's generally lighter that our air, but only to a small extent.
So in general, CO detectors can be near the ceiling, but they don't have to be. Someone once told me to hang them in the height of the average breather in the house. But definitively not near ground level.
hicow t1_itbgr7r wrote
I think I was thinking of radon
MooseBoys t1_itc1e0p wrote
Crucially, the difference in density is small enough that diffusion forces dominate at room temperature. The only issue with placement is ensuring the detector is in an area where the air can easily diffuse to. E.g. don’t put it in a closet, behind a dresser, or in a highly concave corner. These positions will eventually detect CO, but due to the room geometry it may take significantly longer which can easily mean the difference between life and death.
Nordalin t1_itbgt3o wrote
CO2 is heavier than O2, CO is lighter!
Carbon only has 3/4 the weight of oxygen, as it has only 12 protons+neutrons, and oxygen has 16 of them.
cocacola999 t1_itb6llm wrote
Oh that makes sense and makes me nervous about my combo that is mounted on the ceiling above the stairs
Silenthitm4n t1_itb708l wrote
No. It’s slightly lighter than air but the difference is so small height makes no difference.
It’s recommended that they are installed at least 6” below ceiling level and above any doors or windows due to air flow.
[deleted] t1_itb343c wrote
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pain-butnogain t1_itbaird wrote
i think those low placed alarms are for unburnt gas
Murky_Macropod t1_itbdef6 wrote
Yeah we have them on sailing yachts for propane leaks — particularly important as they have nowhere to ‘drain’ to on a boat.
blitz672 t1_itan3py wrote
Make Shure they are more low than high on the wall
similar_observation t1_itbbcc7 wrote
Get into the habit of checking them twice a year. Since I live in the US, I tend to use common US holidays approximately 6 months apart. Like Easter and Halloween or Memorial Day and Thanksgiving... or Independence Day and Christmas
It's especially smart when checking before a cooking or firework holiday.
silverbullet52 t1_itbzz6h wrote
Furnace is only used 6 months out of the year. I replace batteries in mine (and check expiry date...) at the same time I turn the furnace back on.
eljefino t1_itbpoew wrote
They expire ~7 years after purchase. Should have an expiration date on them somewhere.
LawTeaDough t1_itbv9s8 wrote
I highly doubt there is even one Carbon monoxide detector in your home. I do home and HVAC inspections for a living and 9/10 renters don't have one.
alheim t1_itbxvba wrote
Those are probably smoke detectors, not carbon monoxide detectors. They aren't the same.
Llamadramaramamama t1_itc4g28 wrote
If you don’t have one, I’d get a low level CO monitor. The alarms you have may only alert in an emergency situation.
1HappyIsland t1_itazxsh wrote
CO monitors should be mounted low to the floor also!
Silenthitm4n t1_itb70n7 wrote
No. It’s slightly lighter than air but the difference is so small height makes no difference.
It’s recommended that they are installed at least 6” below ceiling level and above any doors or windows due to air flow.
CaskStrengthWhiskey t1_itakjma wrote
A fun fact for you, carbon monoxide poisoning is how your house gets haunted.
https://interstateheatandair.com/carbon-monoxide-real-life-ghost-story/
Caveat this only works if you don't over do the poisoning.
horridpineapple t1_itaqaus wrote
There's a story somewhere here on reddit that was pretty big. A lady, I believe, thought someone was breaking into her house and leaving notes or something all around. Come to find out it was carbon monoxide poisoning. Sleuthed out by the brilliant minds of reddit.
Hidesuru t1_itax1q4 wrote
Could have sworn it was a dude. They were convinced their landlord was spying on them I think, but one Redditor convinced them to check co levels and they were dangerously high for some reason I can't recall.
Cindex9183 t1_itb0vki wrote
You are correct! Something was leaking, I also forget. I'll find it.
Edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/34l7vo/ma_postit_notes_left_in_apartment/
Here it is.
Edit2: follow up post
Hidesuru t1_itbzcco wrote
Ah cool, thanks!
horridpineapple t1_itc4l82 wrote
I think I've got a couple posts mixed around then. I swear I've read one about a woman and I've read the stick note one.
Hidesuru t1_itd9nmd wrote
Could be yeah I'm sure it hasn't happened just once sadly.
[deleted] t1_itay18d wrote
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MmmPeopleBacon t1_itbztqq wrote
Get a carbon monoxide detector. If the levels are high the local Fire Department will come check your carbon monoxide levels and if they are unsafe will issue and order to the landlord that the property is uninhabitable until corrected. Fire Departments don't fuck around with that shit
NETSPLlT t1_itdmvgj wrote
Fire department inspection in many jurisdictions is the quickest 'heaviest' way to get action from the landlord.
LawTeaDough t1_itbufze wrote
Don't touch his equipment. If you touch it, you own it. Call a service person and give the bill to the landlord. It blew out because the flue configuration is bad and is causing back draft which is dangerous to your health. Don't make yourself liable for his shitty equipment. You can have a tech service it and send the bill to the homeowner.
Cenzorrll t1_it9i8nk wrote
I've had this happen, I did the push-the-knob-down thing and clicky-clicked the lighter until the pilot was able to light from the brief flash from the lighter. Then once my finger cramped I was able to let go. I was able to see that my pilot was lit, and it was protected from the breeze.
BeetsMe666 t1_it9yy7i wrote
The cramp is the key... it takes as long as possible to heat up that thermocouple. On the job I just hit it with my mapp gas torch, it lights amd heats it all up rather quickly
zvii t1_itc1psf wrote
Once I saw the HVAC tech do it with a torch, I never looked back and have never had an easier time lighting pilots.
BeetsMe666 t1_itcg6k6 wrote
Us reefer mechanics are a smart bunch. I bet he was handsome too. ;)
zvii t1_itxd7mx wrote
If they don't find me handsome, they better find me handy
divDevGuy t1_itc63j6 wrote
I have a propane fire pit on our porch that takes forever to heat the thermocouple using just the regular flame from the burner. I also do the mapp gas torch trick to speed up the process.
ribnag t1_it9b4du wrote
Ignore most of the instructions, and use a propane torch on low for up to five minutes to heat up the area around the thermocouple (don't hold the torch right on it, you want to warm it, not cook it).
If that still doesn't work, time for a service call.
dingustotalicus OP t1_it9ebmu wrote
With the controller set to "Pilot" or "On"?
ribnag t1_it9eklc wrote
During the step where you're supposed to hold the button in. I don't remember what the setting is, but I remember my fingers are ready to fall off before it finally stays lit.
Key-Chapter t1_it9fmfs wrote
If you heat the thermocouple with a torch the valve can pass gas to the burner without the pilot lit if the valve gets turned to on. If you can get at the vent you can cover it with a bag until the pilot is lit to stop the draft. Looking at the rust your pilot orifice is probably dirty and needs to be cleaned. Check the end of the thermocouple if it's missing a piece or burnt off it won't hold.
the_real_abraham t1_it9pul7 wrote
Maybe just replace the Thermocouple?
danger_sarcasm_ahead t1_it9yrp0 wrote
sounds like the job of an elf
challenge_king t1_itatknj wrote
Preferably one the landlord is paying.
[deleted] t1_itai4i9 wrote
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RemakeSWBattlefont t1_itac1z8 wrote
I do fireplaces and they all have this of using MV style, hold pilot on pilot, light with torch lighter whatever, hold aprox 30 seconds to a miniute, then turn to on. If pilot drops after that time bad or weakening thermo couple, if stays lit but burner will not fire bad TP
HolycommentMattman t1_itbu9ej wrote
I'll just add something to what u/ribnag said: try cleaning the thermocouple. It's very common for them to get dirty due to years of a flame generating soot, and you want them to be clean to more accurately measure temperature.
So get a dollar bill and rub it. If you've seen The Big Lebowski, or are an old-timey serious bowler, you probably know how people polish their bowling balls by using a big cloth and pulling back and forth. Do the same thing using a dollar bill. You basically want to use it like sandpaper.
But it's important to know how it works:
- you turn the knob to pilot
- you hold down the knob, which releases gas out to the pilot flame
- you ignite the pilot by pushing that loud clicking button until a flame appears
- you hold it down for a while, which heats up the thermocouple
- when the thermocouple is sufficiently hot, it believes that it is detecting a flame (which it is)
- if the thermocouple gets too cool, it believes that no flame is present and shuts off the gas
So it's really important for that piece to stay clean, because the dirtier it is, the more heat is required to make it believe a flame is present. And since the pilot light is always uniform, it's possible it goes out because it's not detecting enough heat.
LawTeaDough t1_itbuvj3 wrote
STOP GIVING THIS GUY HVAC TECH ADVICE. HE IS A TENANT AND IT IS THE LANDLORDS PROPERTY. It's a lose lose. You fix it, you just gave your landlord free service. You break it. Now the landlord wants you to pay to fix it.
HolycommentMattman t1_itd73no wrote
Dude, if I had waited on our landlord to fix our heater, we would have frozen to death.
But you're right, landlords should be responsible for rental properties, for exactly why you say. But I still think this is good knowledge to have.
myfotos t1_itcdw9n wrote
If this is the advice you're getting just call someone and send the invoice to the landlord.
WinterHill t1_ita8tsv wrote
On. The main use of the torch is to heat up the thermocouple enough to turn on the full flow of gas, rather than just the flow for the dinky little pilot light.
With the torch, you won’t need to hold the button in at all.
LawTeaDough t1_itbvilw wrote
If the flame is being blown, you have a backdraft problem and the landlord should be doing this.
LawTeaDough t1_itbupr5 wrote
You can ruin your thermocouple that way.
ribnag t1_itbxfcw wrote
I did say not to cook it directly. That said, if it takes five minutes of a torch to light the pilot, it's already not in great shape. :)
FWIW I learned this trick from a service tech, when I called specifically because I couldn't get the pilot lit. He basically told me he could replace a bunch of parts for a few hundred bucks if I really wanted him to, orrr... Grab a $10 "My First Torch" kit from $BigBox and the cylinder will probably last longer than I will (and I already had a halfway decent one, just for sweating pipe, nothing fancy).
pinkpitbull t1_itau3ga wrote
Theres your problem. Your pilot has only two settings- OFF and NO. You need a new pilot.
(Just kidding)
gawdangiboby t1_it9r1ve wrote
Turn the dial to the pilot setting, press the knob down, light the pilot, let the thermocouple heat up for a while, then turn the knob to on
Oh and if refuses to stay lit the thermocouple probably needs to be changed out.
HandsOnGeek t1_itbx3op wrote
This is the answer. I assume OP isn't holding the knob down to light the pilot light and assumed that just turning it to the PILOT position was sufficient.
GeraldBWilsonJr t1_it9k5vj wrote
Probably dirty pilot, you might find some luck tapping gently on the pilot tube's compression nut to unplug it while holding the pilot control in to push some gas through. Still no gas it probably needs a cleaning. If wind is blowing out your pilot then the vent termination might have come off
SuckaMc-69 t1_ita8wxr wrote
That’s not good…. That means your flue is not high enough out of the roof line. You should have no draft at all or very very minor.
LawTeaDough t1_itbuzvk wrote
This is the only answer. The pilot went out because of a bad flue. Relighting it won't fix the problem.
hazpat t1_itc64ez wrote
More likely the pilot was out because they didn't use it through summer. They are lighting it because it's starting to get cold.
Chose_a_usersname t1_itaamm7 wrote
Ugh that furnace looks like shit. The exchanger it's probably cracked and needs replacement. Check your carbon monoxide detectors
Manbat0123 t1_itagetg wrote
If it looks like the flame is coming back towards you when trying to light the pilot then there is a backdraft which is dangerous since if the pilot does light and the backdraft continues carbon monoxide would get pushed in to your home. Could be a clogged vent or improper vent but I would call a gas technician or plumber since it could potentially be deadly if not addressed.
LawTeaDough t1_itbxjjj wrote
I hate this sub so much because 99% of the comments are just ignoring the clear issue any tech would see right away. DIY is for floors and drywall patching etc. NOT FOR HVAC AND ELECTRICAL FOR GODS SAKE
dubbleplusgood t1_itbyr8p wrote
But but but YouTube tutorials and reddit comments are sufficient replacements for professional training and experience, no?
/s
carlmankert1 t1_it9zsfx wrote
Thermocouple
IndecentDad t1_ita7rqv wrote
I used to be a gas tech - they sell lighters with long flexible necks that work greater for those older style pilots lights. They also have heavy duty long wooden matches that are cheaper - but the lighter is the way to go and will last a very long time
Edit: well I see now the thermocouple is really close (not way back in the appliance like I thought in the above response) you just need to heat it up first like the other comments are saying
Drone30389 t1_itabi0b wrote
I assume you're switching the valve on before you're trying to light it? It's off in the picture.
Too much air backflow could be because of ventilation fans or exhausts elsewhere in the building (bathroom, kitchen, dryer, gas water heater) are sucking air out of the building and drawing replacement air down your flue.
The easiest solution to this is to crack open a window near this appliance, at least to see if it will work. That will relieve the negative pressure in the building. If it does, but closing the window causes the pilot to blow out again, then a fresh air supply will need to be installed to feed this appliance.
Manbat0123 t1_itdmhff wrote
I agree, I'm a Red Seal plumber and have my gas B license. There are some DIY people out there that have a good idea of what they are doing but when it comes to things that can potentially kill you like gas venting you have to call a professional ticketed technician. It may cost $300+ to fix the issue, but it's cheaper than a funeral.
TheMan_TheMyth t1_ita0gg1 wrote
Literally holding my thumb on one of these right now. Just replaced the whole assembly. Good luck to both of us.
VentingSalmon t1_ita0ol7 wrote
Turn to pilot, press? , hold lighter near pilot light, wait until thermocouple generates voltage, stop pressing?, turn to on.
If it does not stay on, or does not engage when the thermostat is 'on' replace the thermocouple.
IDK if yours has a push safety for the gas.
fulsooty t1_ita2i45 wrote
I have the same issue (manufactured home furnace). My pilot light was so far back that most lighter "guns" were too short to reach.
Regular matches on the end of a match holder/extender kept blowing out, so I started using camping matches (ones guaranteed to light in the rain) on the end of a match holder/extender. Now it's a less than 5 minute process instead of a 30 minute ordeal.
bloonail t1_ita4j7l wrote
It takes a while. You have to hold the pilot on while the thermocouple warms up. Turn pilot on by holding it. Light the pilot. Hold the pilot button on for a while- might be 5 min
aberserker t1_itarr5x wrote
If that's a direct vent or through the wall vent heater that's very common there's nothing wrong with it because it takes it combustion air from the outside you're going to get air from that hole when it is open when it's running the hole is closed. Checking the firebox is a good idea. I also recommend checking to make sure the vent outside doesn't have a bird's nest in it that'll cause the burner to smother and go out when the hole is closed. Put the control on pilot push the button down use a wood match with a holder of some sort strike and as it's flaring put it in the opening if the pilot doesn't lite then you either have to clear the pilot out if there's no or a small flame. If you have a nice strong pilot impinging on the thermocouple and it doesn't hold you have a weak millivolt system which is either the thermocouple or the mag head in the control. If you get it lit you have to close that little metal door to use the heater.
bleakwinter1983 t1_itb2iw3 wrote
Get it sorted by the landlord , it looks baaaad
jj-sickman t1_itbumky wrote
The caption is the last thing you want to hear before a flight
Jan30Comment t1_itacrjy wrote
Make sure there is no debris in the pilot light. It looks rusty, and it is possible a flake of rust fell into the orifice.
Note that the the screw that says "pilot adj" can be turned increase the gas flow going to the pilot light. But, I doubt that the screw being too "closed" is your problem. Be careful if you turn the screw to increase the pilot light gas: your pilot light is not lighting or not saying lit can create a fire hazard, and turning up the gas flow can make it worse.
As for back pressure, do you have anything like a cloths dryer or exhaust fan running, and has your house has been better sealed up recently (like adding lots of spray foam insulation/caulking/weather stripping)? That can cause air to get pulled down the chimney into the house.
Westerdutch t1_itb3l61 wrote
Hey i found your problem!
Your pilot light can be set to 'NO' or 'OFF' so thats clearly never going to light.....
ihavethedoubts t1_itciid1 wrote
I'm so damn stupid. I stared at the first picture WAY too long thinking it was a GIF and was gonna do something.
king97tut t1_itczsnc wrote
You shouldn't have a backflow like that. You're pilot is telling you something. Get the ladder out and go on roof to see what's blocking the chimney.
scottycolorado t1_itd1pbd wrote
Clearly the problem is that is has two settings - “No” and “Off.”
[deleted] t1_itdiy6a wrote
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[deleted] t1_itdju3l wrote
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Cruser60 t1_it9ndb6 wrote
Eliminate the cause of the back pressure. Until you do this, even if you get the pilot, and burner lit, you can cause a build up of Carbon Monoxide, and put yourself and others in danger.