Electrical wiring help

Submitted by fatherfirst35 t3_zwhviv in DIY

First off, excuse the poor quality of the layout image. I'm working on finishing my basement, will have a bedroom and a bathroom then just recreational area. I'm trying to make sure I understand the wiring layout so I can wire the outlets/switches. The bedroom will have a ceiling fan (labeled CF) in the bedroom, then a recessed can light inthe closet (labeled RL). There will be a switch inside the closet to control the light, and one in the bedroom main area to control fan/light combo. I'm using 12/2 and 12/3 wire for the basement. Do I run the 12/2 wire from outlet to outlet then to the switch and out again to the next outlet then finish in the last switch? 12/3 from the bedroom switch to ceiling fan. 12/2 from the closet switch to recessed can. Then 12/2 from bedroom switch to panel. It's really the tieing in outlets to switches that is throwing me off. I'm going to have separate breakers for the bedroom, bathroom, and rec area. Help!

https://imgur.com/a/INjvEqj

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PioneerStandard t1_j1upggo wrote

12 gauge wire is not required. 14/2 & 14/3 would be more appropriate and cost effective and easier to put on the devices. It is typically easier to go outlet to outlet then hit your light switches then lights and fans.

Check your local code for smoke/co2 detectors, arcfault circuit breakers and make sure to have neutrals in the switch locations.

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theSiegs t1_j1vb89v wrote

>Check your local code for smoke/co2 detectors, arcfault circuit breakers and make sure to have neutrals in the switch locations.

In addition to the mentioned reasons to check code, you'll want to see code on how often to staple the wire, how much slack to leave, when to use pigtails in boxes (probably always!).

Also, whenever I'm doing significant reno work in a room and rewiring it, I try to put lighting and receptacles on different circuits. I'll do the lights first, and then I have nice bright overhead lights to work under when doing all the rest of the electrical.
Lastly; this is personal preference, but I like to use dimmable can lights with a non-lit fan because I'm tall and always duck under the fan even if I don't have to.

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fatherfirst35 OP t1_j1us8oh wrote

Understood on 14/12, but I have a large roll of 12 as the rec area will have higher load from devices, so just figured on doing it all in 12. I mostly just wanted to make sure I CAN run outlet to outlet and loop the switches in with it.

I did forget to include the smoke/co2 detectors but I am going to be wiring those inline with the existing ones

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ForceintheNorth t1_j1uuycj wrote

You can always use larger gauge wire. 14 is minimum gauge for 15A breaker and 12 is minimum for 20A breaker.

The size you use is based on the breaker size. That being said, lights use so little power and 14 gauge is so much cheaper and easier to work with that most ppl put them on a 15A circuit. If the lights are separate from outlets, then in the event you trip a breaker due to high loads on the outlets, you still have lights in the room to see what you're doing.

As for your other wiring question(s) what do you mean by switch loop? That is terminology for when you run power to light fixture, then to the switch. Nowadays it's generally better (and code in most/all areas) to run power to light switch first, then to the fixtures. That allows neutral to be present at the switch in case of a smart switch

For routing I would just wire from the nearest outlet/switch to the next outlet/switch. Outlets you can continue on by wiring directly to the outlet itself. Note if you do this in a 20A circuit you need to use 20A outlets. If you pigtail before connecting to the switch then 15A outlets are fine to use even on 20A circuits. Then on switches you should always pigtail before connecting to the switch otherwise everything beyond it in the circuit will be switched power.

EDIT: crossed out a section. I think all 15A UL certified outlets are rated for 20A pass through, so they're fine to use

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fatherfirst35 OP t1_j1uwjml wrote

Ok so if I start the 12/2 with the outlet on the right side of the door (as you're looking at the image) and run outlet to outlet until I get to the one to the left of the closet. From that outlet can I run that 12/2 to the switch in the closet, then 12/2 from the switch in the closet to the recessed light, and 12/2 from that switch to the next outlet. Then that outlet to the left of the bedroom door to the light switch by the door. Then 12/3 from the bedroom door switch to the ceiling fan/light. Finishing with a homerun from that switch to the electrical panel

I'm going to figure out how to word/diagram that better maybe that will help.

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ForceintheNorth t1_j1ux2r4 wrote

Yes that's fine. Generally when describing the layout you describe from the panel to the first outlet/switch but you described it backwards. No issues with your layout though

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fatherfirst35 OP t1_j1uxeg2 wrote

Awesome thank you! Sorry yeah I’m definitely not an expert. I’m going to have it inspected of course when I finish, just didn’t want to have to redo a bunch of wiring if I was headed down the wrong path.

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jay_mald t1_j1v7twq wrote

If it was me, (coming from a licensed electrician) I would wire the outlets and switches/lighting separately. Meaning one circuit home run for your outlets, and one circuit for your lighting. This way, when you go to inevitably open something up later on, you don’t have to kill all your lighting to service an outlet. Also you only really need 14/2 for your lighting, 12/2 for the outlets is normal. 3 wire for any 3 ways obviously.

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fatherfirst35 OP t1_j1vd7de wrote

I totally understand the recommendation of wiring separately part, as well as the 12/14 part. I had a large 12/2 roll and the rec area is going to have some higher loads on it so I just figured I'd do it all in 12. I was going to also wire the bedroom, bathroom, and rec areas on separate breakers since the rec area has larger load and I have plenty of room in my box. That is why I was going to wire the lights together with the outlets. There will be a ceiling fan/light in the bedroom, a recessed light in the bedroom closet, a vanity light in the bathroom and 6 other recessed lights in the rec area. Would you instead wire the closet, ceiling fan/light, and rec area lights together? The rec area outlets will still have to be separate, there will be a fair amount of use on that 20 amp breaker.

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jay_mald t1_j1vevpe wrote

Yes I would wire the lighting together, barring any setbacks regarding overloading the circuit with too many lights. But if you’re going to wire it in 12 AWG then 1 20A circuit for those should be enough. Hard to imagine you’d have too many lights to trip a 20A breaker.

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jay_mald t1_j1vexar wrote

Could also do it room by room but unsure of how much space you are working with.

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CbackNstomach t1_j1vz802 wrote

I read somewhere I think it was NEC that you can only have five outlets/switches on a 15 amp breaker and eight on a 20 amp breaker.

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Muted-Ad-3000 t1_j1wk6cq wrote

Separate lighting and receptacles put co/smoke on with lighting Not sure where you are or your local code but receptacles should be on an arc fault breaker the lights and smks cannot be on an arc fault as they need to function in an emergency also if you can run a three wire to upstairs smk to interconnect if one activates they all activate

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fatherfirst35 OP t1_j1wo5nk wrote

My house has wired together detectors, there’s already one in the basement that I’ll move over to the unfinished side and can run that to the bedroom.

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AceDetective427 t1_j1vj5ef wrote

No one mentioned it, but 8 standard duplex outlets is A LOT to have on one 20A circuit as you have it drawn currently. You should also check local code and NECA because I'm mot even sure you can have that much potential load in a room designated as a bedroom. I would break that up into at least 2x circuits with 4 outlets each, and then run a shared circuit for the lighting in all areas as the electrician already noted. Worst thing would be to trip a breaker due to outlet overload or short and end up sitting in the dark sorting it out.

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dilligaf4lyfe t1_j1vxvub wrote

A) There are no code limits to how many general use receptacles can be on a residential circuit. This is actually contentious, many people will say they must be calculated at 180VA, but the 180VA number is derived from calculations for non-residential feeder demand. I'm on the "It's not code enforceable" side of the fence, but I still size circuits at 180VA per receptacle. Basically, in my opinion, it's a design question, which is ostensibly outside of the scope of the NEC.

B) Let's say you do think it's code enforceable, cool, 180VA gets you max 13 receptacles per circuit. So, 8 is totally fine. If these are general receptacles with unknown loads. If you do know the loads, add those up and calculate 180VA for the rest of the receptacles that are general use. There's a little more that can go into it depending on the space and how it's being used, but generally speaking 8 on a 20 is perfectly fine.

C) NECA is the National Electrical Contractor's Association, the NEC is the National Electrical Code.

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fatherfirst35 OP t1_j1vkkpy wrote

4 on a 20a breaker seems like way overkill. Every other bedroom was wired with at least 6 on a 15a breaker. This bedroom though will be a guest bedroom so there won’t be much load anyways. I will probably switch it up and wire the lighting separate though as suggested.

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dilligaf4lyfe t1_j1vy3xp wrote

You're right, it is overkill, I outlined the load calcs in another comment.

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AceDetective427 t1_j1vne8m wrote

If it was me, I would do the standard 1 per wall unless you have a specific reason or intent to have more in that area. Maybe put 2, one on either side of the bed for nightstands on that wall like you generally have in a master bedroom. If you are only doing 5 or 6 total outlets then 1 circuit should be enough, but when I saw 8 outlets I figured this was going to be like a hobby room with workbenches or something where more power would be warranted.

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