New painter questions about old paint on walls, unpainted popcorn ceilings and primer!

Submitted by thatoneguyovertheres t3_zy6gsg in DIY

The rooms that are being painted have unpainted popcorn ceilings, with about a 3 inch border around the edges of the ceiling that looks to be just regular drywall mud/flat ceiling.

The person at the store gave me a discount on SW Promar 400 Flat white ceiling paint. I also picked up some of their Emerald wall paint because I was told it's user friendly for people new to painting. Should I have got something different for the ceiling? I've found mixed reviews for it, after the fact.

The walls are currently an off white color, that hasn't been painted since it was built in the 90's. Pretty sure it's just whatever cheap paint the builders used. Also, one room had several pin holes on every wall from posters that were hung up, but were filled with spackle and sanded. The new wall color is SW Krypton, which is a grey with blue undertones. I plan in doing 2 coats for both the ceiling and walls? Do I need primer for the ceiling and walls? If so, would a different type be needed for each?

I've read that I should use paint without acrylic in it, for the ceiling, as the popcorn ceiling would be easier to remove in the future, should we choose to do so. Is that true?

This is what I bought for the ceilings: https://imgur.com/a/LHAkyVp

Thanks in advance!

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Comments

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aZamaryk t1_j244i15 wrote

Nows the time to scrape off those popcorn ceilings if you want them gone. Sounds like the edges are prepped for crown molding. You can spritz popcorn with water bottle wetting it thoroughly then scrape off with putty knife. It makes a bit of a mess, but is pretty easy. Just sand flat after, repair defects, prime then paint. The ceiling paint should be fine, but I would use primer on new surfaces with it. The emerald has primer in formulation and will go on fine on the painted walls. On new surfaces I'd still use primer with any paint. It promotes adhesion and blocks stains to give a much better finish. The prep work is always most important.

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S_A_N_D_ t1_j2460a1 wrote

Seconded. DO NOT PAINT OVER POPCORN CEILING OP.

Popcorn ceiling is not hard to remove. It's just messy and time consuming. Popcorn ceiling that has been painted over is a whole different story because the paint is now acting as a layer of glue over top.

Easier to remove does not mean easy to remove. Any paint will make it much harder to remove in the future.

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lisalys t1_j24gb6q wrote

Ouch. My parents painted over their popcorn ceilings multiple times. Assuming it has asbestos in it, getting rid of that is going to be expensive.

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falderol t1_j25ff63 wrote

test it, why assume.

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lisalys t1_j278fua wrote

When I ever inherit, I will. But judging by the year, I’m pretty sure there’s asbestos everywhere.

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falderol t1_j28z9lj wrote

Then you also need to be testing for lead. Asbestos can nail you after a long time. Lead can hit you much quicker.

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lisalys t1_j2a3fum wrote

Thanks! I hadn’t thought of that!

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belleandhera t1_j265fx9 wrote

Because it's not necessary? If you are gonna make it your job to remove popcorn ceilings, that's one thing. If you are removing a single one, you're fine no matter how asbestosey it is.

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falderol t1_j26jfxf wrote

I dont think that is true. If you are mobilizing asbestos there are (maybe) laws about doing it. I think I have heard that if you find asbestos anywhere, you are required to use approved contractors to control and remove it. They use plastic doors and negative pressure enclosures to keep the fibers from contaminating the neighbors. The stuff kills people...eventually.

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DepartmentNatural t1_j24xfk9 wrote

Only expensive if a removal company does it

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Epic2112 t1_j251j60 wrote

I'm pretty sure cancer can end up costing a pretty penny.

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Coffeedemon t1_j26d45r wrote

It isn't something that's going to give you cancer over the weekend. Get a proper respirator and disposal gear and clear the house out. This stuff gets you from working with it over a career and without proper PPE.

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DepartmentNatural t1_j25emy3 wrote

True but cancer from one time exposure is highly unlikely and with proper ppe & mitigation safeguards, which both are easily obtained and used in a home remodel cancer risk is zero

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Rikiar t1_j26az9g wrote

Cancer risk is never zero.

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Coffeedemon t1_j26dag3 wrote

There's probably gas coming from your basement or drains that will get you faster than fixing the ceiling.

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Rikiar t1_j26e1hg wrote

I didn't say the cancer had to come from the ceiling cleaning. It's never zero though, it's just close to zero.

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Allidoischill420 t1_j26xowi wrote

And bananas give you radiation too but that doesn't mean we go directly touching radiation because we can have bananas

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skydiver1958 t1_j2bh0ix wrote

No it's not that bad. I've done two house renos with bad painted popcorn with patches and we had a guy that troweled on drywall mud (2 or 3 coats) and sanded and painted. Smooth as silk. It's messy but not nearly as messy as scraping and turns out 100%. Too often people take the hard way when there really is an easier solution.

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lisalys t1_j2cs2e2 wrote

That’s awesome!! I will definitely keep that in mind!!!

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ClumsyRainbow t1_j2d6dld wrote

Yep, I had this done before moving to my current place and am now finally getting around to repainting each room in turn. I got quotes for a few options, this skim coating over the popcorn, putting new drywall below it, and full scraping/removal and then skim coating. This was the cheapest option, though adding an extra layer of drywall wasn't much more - but it would have lowered the ceilings perceivably, whilst the skim coat is really only taking off maybe 10mm from the total height of the room - totally unnoticeable.

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thunderstricken t1_j261khb wrote

I tried painting over popcorn ceiling once. The damp from the paint made it flake in a bunch of areas. It looked awful and I ended up having to have it removed anyway. And it was harder because it was painted and water wouldn’t dampen it as well.

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crspycantlop t1_j27eyoh wrote

Can only do thin coats if it’s not already falling off

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Old_timey_brain t1_j250st7 wrote

> Seconded. DO NOT PAINT OVER POPCORN CEILING OP.

I must completely disagree. When I took possession of my home, the first tradesman in was the painter who sprayed all the ceilings with flat white enamel. Twenty four years later, they are still looking good.

The ceilings are sealed though. With a thin layer of paint as I have, I can tell by one area of inadvertent damage (oops) that a putty knife would take it off easily while dry as the paint offers a slight crust to give leverage.

EDIT: The paint was oil based.

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S_A_N_D_ t1_j252bbz wrote

My point wasn't that it won't look good. My point was that if ever you decide you want a flat roof or some other texture, removing the popcorn becomes a real PIA after it's been painted. OP specifically made a comment about removing the popcorn later. If that's in the cards at all, they should not paint it.

I'm also guessing OP will be rolling and not spraying which will possibly have poorer results. Rolling an uneven surface can be tricky and may not work well.

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Old_timey_brain t1_j259757 wrote

> I'm also guessing OP will be rolling and not spraying which will possibly have poorer results. Rolling an uneven surface can be tricky and may not work well.

Having attempted to roll a ceiling, I'll vouch for that, and promise to never do it again.

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DenimDann1776 t1_j263zus wrote

I always put a drip cloth down and get a weed sprayer so I can throughly coat it. The drywall will dry out with a fan in a night and a 14” blade will make short work of it. Messy but a lot cleaner than sanding( dont even try)

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aZamaryk t1_j2649r5 wrote

The sanding is meant after removal. You have to sand ceiling once all popcorn is gone. I would never recommend sanding down popcorn.

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tafinucane t1_j276sx3 wrote

Test the ceiling for asbestos if the house was built before 1980.

I use a pump-action sprayer tank to soak the popcorn before scraping it off.

You should probably apply knockdown joint compound texture to the ceiling, because under that popcorn you will find uneven joints--that's why popcorn was so popular with builders. If it's really bad, you may need to tape and smooth out the joints before applying texture.

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ThePresidentsNipples t1_j247klk wrote

It needs to be said old popcorn ceilings can contain asbestos.

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usedTP t1_j24r9fn wrote

This is 90's construction so it should be asbestos-free.

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wlaugh29 t1_j253r2l wrote

Not necessarily. Asbestos was banned in the late 1980s for sale, but it still could've been used if a contractor had stock. So while your comment can be true, it is not entirely accurate.

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ThePresidentsNipples t1_j259mwk wrote

Should be but it's a gamble still

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Grippenripp t1_j25qoyt wrote

On July 12, 1989, EPA issued a final rule banning most asbestos-containing products.

I think OP is safe. Regardless I would still wear a mask when I scraped it off just because there is still particulate matter that can cause respiratory irritation. Keeping the ceiling as wet as possible without wetting too much to damage the drywall is important.

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Coffeedemon t1_j26dmbt wrote

Banning new production ot outright requiring the destruction of existing stock? They put that shit in everything so there's still a chance it snuck in.

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Dr_Wh00ves t1_j28x7x6 wrote

OP should still test it. When I was working doing gut jobs on old houses we found out a lot of popcorn ceilings from the mid to late 90s still contained asbestos. Just because the EPA mandated it doesn't mean people stopped using/buying old stock and using it anyways because it was cheaper/easier. Not worth the risk of future lung cancer IMO, especially when testing is relatively cheap/easy.

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Sluisifer t1_j28yirj wrote

And some contractor could be sitting on old stock they want to use up. It makes sense to test well into the 90s.

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HotLipsHouIihan t1_j24wihi wrote

I’m looking at a condo in a building from 1976. The entire place has popcorn ceilings. Should I assume the worst?

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sheravi t1_j25492v wrote

Probably. Our place is mid 70s as well as there's asbestos in everything.

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Grippenripp t1_j25qv7r wrote

YES. Definitely have it checked for asbestos. Almost guarantee it will have it in it. Anything past 1990 is usually safe.

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neon_slippers t1_j26eztf wrote

My house was built in 1976. I had my ceilings tested and they came back negative.

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ThePresidentsNipples t1_j259duy wrote

Absolutely you should I think somewhere around 85 you can be less vigilant, but even then there was plenty of material left that could still be used either through loopholes or pure contractor bullshittery.

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DiabolicallyRandom t1_j25f4yx wrote

Yes. And in cases of uncertainty, it is best to assume that there is asbestos. And in cases of asbestos, it is better to leave in place if the condition is good.

this is why I sealed over top of my asbestos popcorn with several layers of oil primer, and painted once cured. It was in good non-crumbling condition.

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series_hybrid t1_j26hshr wrote

So, just to be on the safe side, I should smoke filterless Camels while scraping the popcorn off?

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ThePresidentsNipples t1_j27kcn6 wrote

Well now, you're bringing back flashbacks of my late teens....damn I had sexy lungs back then

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Rubbytumpkins t1_j26i1ps wrote

I'm probably too late to this but I am a restoration specialist. I'm the guy that makes the natural disaster/fire look like it never happened. So here's what matters:

  1. Popcorn ceiling absorbs moisture. Water mist will remove it and so will latex paint since latex paint is water based. If you put latex over popcorn the popcorn can start to fall off or make a bald spot etc. If you are not planning to remove the popcorn then what you want to do is prime it first with an oil based stain block primer (SW has a good one that I use).
  2. The stainblock primer will stop any nicotine or grease spots etc from weeping back through. If you skip straight to latex, nicotine is oily and will bunch up and make orange blobs in your finished product. BUT, primers also absorb. If you only use primer the ceiling will yellow with age and pick up dirt faster. So you need both.
  3. Cover the stainblock primer with the flat paint they already sold you (this is the right product for ceiling). Both primer and paint can be rolled on with a 15mm roller just fine, just do one coat front to back and another coat side to side of each product so that you dont have missed spots.
  4. The popcorn ceiling will look great for many more years and can be washed with a cloth or repainted for maintenance...but it won't be easily removable with water anymore.
  5. If you have bare patches of popcorn DO NOT buy the spray can popcorn from the local hardware. It will not look good I can almost guarantee it, just going to make a mess.
  6. If you are kinda handy and want to give it a shot, spraying popcorn is actually kinda easy because if it doesn't look how you want you can scrape it off in 10s with a wide trowel and try again. Equipment is rentable. There are 3-4 main types of ceiling texture, take a picture of your ceiling then do down to the place that sells it and compare your ceiling to the samples. Once you have the correct texture then spraying it just becomes a game of getting the ratio of water content, nozzle size, and air pressure correct. So spray at a blank wall and start dry, spray high and low pressure. Then add water, spray at high and low pressure. Eventually it will look close enough, apply to ceiling.

Good luck DIYers.

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Senor_Andy_Panda t1_j25efez wrote

Okay, specifics time, I work as a paint specialist

ProMar 400 is a dead flat, so it's great for ceilings.

Less sheen means imperfections show leas, and since ceilings get hit by light at all sorts of angles, something like that is good.

You might come across "ceiling flat" at some point. It's the same as dead flat

"Premium" paints will have a slight side sheen, even when they say "flat"

Higher grade paints will say "matte" instead of flat, it's basically all the same, just the higher the grade of paint, the higher the sheen, usually. Higher grade satin will have a slight sheen difference to a lower grade satin. Always touch up with the same exact product if possible.

Emerald is expensive stuff, it's not bad but really expensive.

If it's for a flip, stick with "pro grade" products

If it's for a client's home, I usually recommend anything "premium" or above, aka, "paint and primer"

For the record, paint + primer does NOT mean you can skip priming, as others are saying, you can remove the popcorn ceiling, but I would definitely get some decent primer before painting over the removed ceiling. Also pretty much anywhere you put new spackle, new texture, new drywall, etc. Basically, if it's been painted before, primer can help if you don't want to sand the gloss off. If it's a new surface, priming is a good first step. This applies to wood, masonry, drywall, and metal when wanting to apply paints. Some paints, like DTM, won't need a primer, but it never hurts. Any water stains, sharpie markers, or graffiti, you want to use an oil based primer to keep it from bleeding through to the top coat. If you ever paint redwood, or cedar, use a good quality stain blocking primer to keep the oils in the wood from seeping through to your paint coat.

Primer will help seal the surface, and help the paint stick better, and it's cheaper to do a coat of primer, than a coat of sacrificial paint. Primer also typically dries quicker.

95% of residential architectural coatings are going to be acrylic these days, at least in places on the west coast.

Acrylic/latex paint = water based paint = soap and water cleanup

Mineral spirits cleanup = oil based paint

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theartfulcodger t1_j24314y wrote

Yes, avoid acrylic paint on your popcorn. Standard way of removing it is to thoroughly soak it with a garden sprayer and take it off with a putty knife. Should you choose to remove the texture one day, any acrylic coat you put on it will seal it against water penetration and make the removal much, much more difficult.

Be sure to thoroughly sand said spackle patches on the wall, and be sure to thoroughly clean them with TSP beforehand. But generally speaking, there should be no need to prime them.

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mondof t1_j24d938 wrote

If you paint the popcorn ceiling whoever decides to remove the texture in the future is going to be cussing you out. Popcorn ceilings are easy to remove if they aren't painted.

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bigsquib68 t1_j26iqd4 wrote

I haven't seen it posted yet but if you are keeping the popcorn, you'll want to spray the paint on instead of using a roller. Popcorn can easily be pulled off with a roller.

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Laughing_with_myself t1_j275tbh wrote

Popcorn ceilings are very commonly asbestos containing and is considered high risk in my locale. It's very easy to become airborne when disturbed, and will stay airborne for days. If you are going to remove it, please educate yourself on local removal and disposal procedures.

With that being said, no city landfill is going to be checking what's inside your garbage bags, but please protect yourself and others as much as possible.

I am an Asbestos certified demolition tech.

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OkMaintenance7832 t1_j27eb5b wrote

If you decide to remove the popcorn at any point, something to be aware of / consider:

Our friends who live in the home behind us removed theirs when they moved in, using the wet and scraping method others here mentioned. The unexpected issue they ran into, was once the popcorn texture was removed, they realized how bad the drywall seams and tape jobs were, and then had to deal with fixing that. I guess the builders did a subpar job taping and smoothing the seams knowing the popcorn would hide it anyway.

They also said the process was MISERABLE. The husband is a contractor and no stranger to that kind of work or laborious projects but said he’d never do it again. It’s the main reason we’ve decided to not mess with trying to remove the popcorn on our ceiling, lol. That might be uncommon, I don’t know, but we decided we didn’t want to take on that project, which sounds unpleasant already, and then find out we have same issue and a second project.

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likeateatrayinthesky t1_j26gcj1 wrote

As someone who has removed painted popcorn ceilings - it is miserable.
If you plan on removing the popcorn ceilings at any time in the future, don't paint them!!!
Test for asbestos and just scrape them off.

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Quiet_Cats t1_j242z4e wrote

They have paint specifically for ceilings which may cover a little better as it is a higher quality and is made to be a brighter white than the package color you got. But other than that you would be fine to use the 400 on ceilings.

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jjmk2014 t1_j251pkg wrote

You are fine with your plans assuming you are going to leave the popcorn for the next several years. I've used both products you mentioned for the same applications. 2 coats and you'll be good.

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travtele844 t1_j2523ui wrote

Also since I don't see it mentioned if you try and do anything but spray unpainted popcorn ceilings you will be scraping and removing them anyway.

Trying to brush or roll unpainted popcorn ceilings will start removing and or relocating the texture on the ceiling ruining it.

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Paverunner t1_j265lkh wrote

Popcorn ceilings are outdated and are hard to clean. Remove!

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t1ttysprinkle t1_j26gy40 wrote

The comments here that mention protect the room, spray down the popcorn, scrape it off, then let it dry, sand / patch as needed and theeeeeen prime are spot on.

TONS of work. I do a room every 6 months. That’s it!

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UsedUpSunshine t1_j28ugjf wrote

Get rid of the popcorn ceiling. The ceiling paint you have will do the job. Don’t go with oil based paints because it’s a pain for anyone else that will paint the house. People are moving away from oil because of the fumes and chemicals. Not as environmentally friendly or some shit like that.

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flyize t1_j2983s9 wrote

Wait, is it actual popcorn or mud? I see a lot of people call things popcorn (ie the Styrofoam stuff) when its actually mud.

My house was built in the 90s and used mud for a popcorn-like effect. If that's the case, just skim coat it and move on. If you try to remove it, you'll end up damaging a bunch of the drywall and have to skim coat it anyway.

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Binasgarden t1_j26hh2y wrote

This will sound nuts but spray a little water on the popcorn and then it should scrape right off it is messy but it was fast to get it down. I found a dust pan in one hand to scrape it into with the other hand using a cheap plastic scraper worked the best, but ours was never sealed and the kids in bunk beds would run fingers and toes and what all across the ceiling cause it was right there....popcorn had to go

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AleeeeshaB t1_j2671m8 wrote

No. No. I can’t even fathom your first paragraph. Let’s start again. Load up some photos cuz this makes ZERO sense.

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