Submitted by Castle_33_ t3_zg33r3 in DIY
I have a water line running approximately 250 feet from my house to my barn. It has 2 splices.
After the first use, it lost pressure. I checked the connection at the spigot in the barn and that connection was fine. It has to be one of the 2 splices between the house and the barn.
How do you find an underground water leak??
It was new install, and it’s laid underneath the electrical in the same trench. Water is 6 feet and electrical is 4
So the splices were part of the installation, not previous repairs? If the water is under the electric I wouldn’t go poking with metal rods.
Call your water company. They have listening devices that can hear water leaks underground. They may be able to help - but since it’s on your line, not theirs they may not be allowed to. If they can’t they can probably give you another company.
6’ is deep for a water line unless you have a really deep frost line.
5' is code in Northern MN, Ottawa is basically 6' but I agree. That is very deep, probably has more to do with savings on digging one deeper trench to install water + electrical than having to do with the frost line
From Northern MN down to Nebraska the vast majority of water lines I've worked around have been more than 5' deep.
Code is probably 5' minimum but it's normal to be below that, often well below that.
Here in Metro Detroit it’s all 5’6. Some places further north are 6’ and 6’6.
Yea but we're talking barn to house. Not utility main
In any case yea 6' is reasonable but it seems deep for this scenario
i would concur that metal rod poking near electric lines is bad,but the wiring should be in the proper conduit per local code,correct? poking that deep would be difficult,depending on composition and compaction of the fill, perhaps requiring a hammer,therefore i’d go with ‘no poke’.
Could be direct burial wire that’s not in a metal conduit.
Either way, at 6’ it’s kinda deep for poking the soil.
Can confirm that a hammer would probably be nessesary. I used to do building staking and even the 1/4” think lath we used for call outs took some swings of a 4lb sludge to get ~8” deep. A small diameter rod might work better but you’re still probably gonna be hammering to get any depth with it.
No conduit needed per code. Due to northern climates, we are well below the frost line
You're not using conduit for a 250' run of cable. They definitely used direct burial
I have a 300 foot run using conduit
Underground as a private diyer? What were you feeding?
Anything you want to be able to replace or add to. Having innerduct makes it really easy to do that.
Probe rods have a ball shaped end.
Good ones do, at least.
> They have listening devices that can hear water leaks underground.
Not always. Some smaller water companies don't have such devices.
Well they probably do or at least funds to access one but just don’t use them for individual residential purposes
Maybe, but I doubt it. My water company is literally a small pole barn that houses a small excavator, pickup and a trailer to haul the excavator. There is a small office attached to it where they do the administrative stuff and a 10x30ft shed that holds materials. There are 3 employees and I have their cell phone numbers are given out so that they can be reached in the event of an emergency.
When I moved into my current house the water line from the meter to my house busted. That line is about 100ft long. Besides coming and turning the water off, they were no help. I asked about special devices that they could use to listen for a leak or help mark where the waterline was so I knew where to dig. They said they had nothing like that.
That doesn’t mean they couldn’t get access to one for bigger things. Like I said they probably have funds for using one just not for personal residential problems
short of being at the north pole, that depth ought to be fine for the freeze line. assuming the pipe getting to that depth and coming out of it is protected from the cold. could be a bad install. is it pvc? copper? did someone forget to sweat or glue a joint?
if its a fresh install then doing the rod method and digging up the suspect spots might not be a bad option.
Check the splice points first.
>"digging up the suspect spots"
If it’s 250’ it’s most definitely poly pipe
Christ almighty. My water line is 1’ down and electrical is about 8” 😂.
When I had a 2” line to my barn break it was fairly easy to get the area of it. Took a bit digging through oak roots to get the exact spot. Was gonna suggest similar but at 6’. Wooooh no idea how to find that easily.
Did you mark the splice locations? Or know where they are?
I do agree with many though, could be a blockage.
What did you mean by pressure drops when you cut off the spigot?
If it's new and leaking I would contact who installed it first.
Since the sub is /r/DIY - it's probably OP who did the installation.
I figured just the opposite. If this guy installed a 250' water line 6' deep and power the same distance and 4' deep, then why is he here on DIY asking this question?
I remember someone posting a while back about sending power to an outbuilding (an office shed?), and he rented a small backhoe to dig the 4' trench in his back yard.
I'm pretty sure the comments ripped his electrical work to shreds, much like posting deck building projects is sure to point out all the code violations and death traps heh. But the point being that it's possible for a DIY'er to get a trench dug that deep with some rental tools.
6' trench is literally in over your head for a DIYer. Maybe why it's so deep in the first place.
lol, until this comment I'd been reading it as 6 inches this whole time and was like damn, y'all have no confidence in the man.
As long as you shore everything properly and have the right tools and time it's not over your head.
Just be sure to get the area checked before you dig
Edit: I got r/woosh (Ed)
Woosh
Lol had to re-read that. Definitely r/woosh
Literally.
Nah…they have pretty good rental equipment in my area. The only issue we ran into was the trench caving in slightly. That may or may not have played a factor. But I didn’t a house 2 years ago with the same method and it worked well.
Because learning to fix it yourself is better than getting a contractor?
So if you hired someone to do work and that work failed you wouldn't call that person to have them do it right?
Depends. If I hired someone to do work and that work failed I might not trust them to fix it. Depends how it failed and why.
Yeah just another classic example of someone posting to diy and being told to r/callaprofessional not sure why people even bother commenting if they aren’t willing to actually help.
I installed it..and yes I am here now asking for resolution, I work with family members who know what they are doing and have proper equipment. Something went screwey though!😂
If it was after the first use, you might actually have a blockage; I have seen installers throw pipes in a dirt trench before connecting them and all sorts of debris gets in there. In my case a rock got wedged in the line and the rest of the junk built up behind it. You might be able to get a 250ft electrical fish tape and run it through the line and see if you hit anything. Just a idea.
This was also my first thought. I was fixing my sprinklers this summer and was having a hell of a time keeping the dirt out of the lines. It wouldn't take a very big rock or a couple pebbles to create a block at the down stream valve
Yea, agreed it's maybe a blockage. The line would have to have completely separated to have lost pressure. You wouldn't notice a pressure drop from anything other than a massive leak.
We are still getting water through the line, but when the valve is turned off at the barn the pressure falls when it should remain. I’m starting to think the ground shifted and put pressure on a splice
always pressurize before burial
A lot of folks jumping to the conclusion that it is a leak but I haven’t heard any definite signs it is. Do you have a water meter you can look at? If not, you can use any of the ball valves that supply your barn line to see if it has a large leak. Just barely crack the valve open. If it hisses continuously, you have a leak. If it hisses and then stops or doesn’t hiss, then you have a blockage instead of a leak. You f y or have a water meter just see how many gallons per minute the meter is racking up with everything else in the house turned off. Common causes of reduced pressure would be an extra rubber gasket, a plastic end cap, a chunk of ptfe tape, etc. knowing the material of the water line and what both ends connections look like would help to speculate further.
I like this comment. Check that no water is being used and go look at the meter. Maybe you could unscrew the screen on a sink in the barn and see if any stuff comes out. When they install new water lines in Florida they pressure the line and attach a pressure meter for 24 hours or so to text if there is a leak. You could do that fairly easily.
Also I live below the frost line by a few hours. Our water line could be on the surface of the ground. 6 feet is nuts.
A plumber with leak detection equipment can trace the leak fairly quickly. Involves filling the pipe with tracer gas and a microphone listens for where the gas is escaping. Very accurate
This is basically correct - for something this deep they will just leave the water running though and they have a microphone attached to a ground probe and a meter with headphones. They will walk up the line probing the ground every ten feet or so until they home in on the leak and then dig there.
It sounds like OP may have a blockage though. Contractors who do this stuff are not often careful enough about making sure foreign objects stay out of the water lines.
I always wondered how they did that! (Not enough to google) amazing, thank you!
https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMFbHose3/
I watch this guy a lot 🤣 it’s oddly satisfying.
Is it maybe frozen?
we had this exact problem,i only discovered it was leaking when a small pond formed in the grass between the house and workshop, which is about 180’ away.
I had this happen to me after I had a backhoe drive through my yard. I didn’t even notice the leak for like 3 months until I noticed the pressure gauge for my well pump slowly dropping even when nothing was running.
Disconnect the water and hook air up to it. You'll hear it, or if you're in Canada, you'll have a hole where there's no snow. Dig there.
Lol! Not Canada but not too far from there. Like I said previously, the water line is 6 feet down and below our electrical line. You think that leaked air would still make it to the surface and past the frost line?
Yes. It will find the shortest path up. This method worked for a friend of mine last winter. In canada
What material did you use for the underground line? What state are you in? How deep did you bury?
I'm not an expert but I would start with what you know.
There are 2 splices covering 250? So, these must be 100' sections. Start at 100' from the upstream. If you find a splice and it's the wrong one go another 100' down. If you don't find a splice count 100' from the downstream end for the most likely spots. That said, the pipe could have been damaged literally anywhere during the backfill.
Perhaps the faucet is clogged with debris. I’d start with take the faucet head off and make sure it is clear.
Leak??
I had a break in a pipe from my house to my barn too. I thought a lot about how to detect where the leak was. Then i had a contractor working in my basement, unrelated, and he detected a small pinhole leak in a water pipe in the basement. He called me and i told him where the water shutoff was and that i'd be home in an hour. Well he turned "off" the wrong valve and turned ON the water to the barn that had a leak. Needless to say, when i got home there was a huge puddle in front of the barn where the undetected leak revealed itself. I dug the 4' down to find a PVC 90 elbow had collapsed underground. I replaced with brass and all is good now.
Make sure its not shut off at the house. They could have done a pressure check and shut it off at the house.
Lmao
FYI it is possible for water pressure buildup from a broken line to damage a basement foundation wall, i.e. to crack it and cause it to start leaking - if you’re going to let it run for a long time hoping to make a big puddle somewhere out along the line, just make sure to check periodically for signs of water right up against the house.
I'm in a city but can confirm that they use listening rods to ballpark leak locations. They drill a hole above the main and then touch the rod to the pipe. Apparently you can hear "rushing" if you're close to the leak. The rod in this case is +/- 8' long. Looks like rebar.
Why put the electric at 4 and water at 6. If I already had a trench at 6 feet I'd just run the wire next to it. It's only like 4 more feet of wire. Then if you ever need to dig you know where everything is. Also didn't the line get tested before burying it? Break the line at the house rig a cap to allow you to put compressed air in the line. Put 10psi in the line. If it holds it's likely a block if it bleeds off pressure it's a leak.
Look for the wet spot.
Here's a thought. Did you snake the line in the bottom of the trench or pull it tight and straight?
If you didn't leave slack in the water line one of your splices may have pulled apart. Things move when buried as things settle.and also once pressure is applied.
Get your shovel and your gloves. Start uncovering the buried line from one end or the other, either end will work. when you find damp soil and damp or running water, commence repairs to stop the leak.
See any puddles out of nowhere between the two?
If so start digging
How's your weather? Did the water line freeze?
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What material? If it's that black sprinkler tubing it's flat as a pancake under all that backfill.
PEX hard to say, with no rocks in the trench it could make it but might not.
Go look at your water meter, if there is a leak you will see the meter move..
Do you know relatively where the lines run and the splices are? If you have a high degree of confidence, you could leave the water pressurized for a few days, then try driving a steel pipe down near the splices to see if you can locate a soggy patch of sub-surface dirt - kind of like attempting to take core samples of soil. Obviously you want to make sure you don't inadvertently punch a hole in your electric or damage the line further - hence the need to know where the line is!
Have an upvote for calling it a spigot.
Dig
dr_xenon t1_izesi85 wrote
Get a thin rod and start poking in the ground. If you find a really soft spot, that could be it.
If it already has 2 splices, it’s prone to breaking. Is it deep enough? Does heavy equipment go over it much? How old is it and what material is it? Maybe it’s just getting old and brittle. You fix one break and it may blow out the next weak spot.
How much water are you using in the barn? Maybe you can replace the whole thing with a spool of direct burial poly tubing.