Submitted by Apprehensive-Egg374 t3_10lfuwo in DIY
I’m tying to add a second 1/4 inch water line for a refrigerator to under my kitchen sink. I couldn’t find any cross 3/8 3/8 1/4 1/4 tees to replace the current 3/8 3/8 1/4 tee that I have now. So can I just add another 1/4 inch Tee on top of the current 1/4 inch Tee on the cold water line for a fridge water line? Or is there a better more correct way? Thx!
Thank you! This gets attached to the 1/4 end of the Tee I already have right? And then I attach the two water lines I want to add to the shark bite tee?
You'd snip the white 1/4" line a couple inches in from the other tee and install the 1/4" tee there.
Edit: or a couple feet in. It really doesn't matter where you tee
Oh I see. I’m using a stainless steel hose for the fridge line. So I don’t think I would be able to attach that to this tee. I’d need a compression tee. Any ideas?
Is there a reason that I can’t connect another brass tee on top of the first tee?
You can put another brass tee on top of the other one
Hey, I have another question. I’m hearing the water line pipes may not be suitable for water. What do you think?
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have any advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
I'm not sure if you want to replumb your house, but old brass fittings had lead in them. Newer lead free ones have markings to identify them. Learn more about that here
Thank you so so much!!
Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
People do that with dishwashers all the time, yeah.
Clothes washer, idk. They have a pretty high discharge rate. I've never seen it under a sink like your dishwasher is.
Sure you can stack them. They have a washer on the one end.
Thx! I’m also gonna take the bottom Tee for the dishwasher and move it to the hot water side. Once I take the tee out, how do I put the pipe back into the bottom shutter valve? Do I just put Teflon tape on the pipe and then push it into the shutter valve?
You can use a shark bite but I’d go for a more permanent fitting.
You can't shark bite galvanized pipe.
I'd use a compression tee off the line after the filter, might as well have good tasting ice too.
The issue is my filter is really slow, so I don’t really want that going to my fridge too because then the drinking water coming out of the fridge will be really slow too.
Any other suggestions? Would just putting a tee on top of the existing tee work?
Yes, but add a single stage filter at least, it will save you a bunch of money on the proprietary filters in the fridge.
If you've got room, an expansion tank would solve both problems, RO filters are quite slow so a lot come with 3 gallon white expansion tanks that fill up with RO water then give you fast flow and great pressure when you're actually using it.
Hey, I have another question. I’m hearing the water line pipes may not be suitable for water. What do you think?
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have any advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
I can't tell from the pics but it looks like black iron which is usually for gas lines. Galvanized or copper for water.
Turns out the bottom shutter valve actually does not work. So I’ll have to replace it. Would replacing it with this shutter valve work?
1/2-in Compression x 1/2-in Compression Brass Quarter Turn Stop Angle Valve
All I need to do is turn off the main water line, make sure the water is actually off, take off the old shutter valve, stick the new shutter valve on the pipe, tighten it with a wrench, (no pipe dope and no Teflon tape since it’s a compression fitting right?), then add another 1/2 inch pipe (copper or brass?) and I’m good?
Thank you so so much!!
Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
I wouldn't be able to tell, call in a local plumber and have v it done to code.
If the brass pipe coming from the wall brakes off, can I cut it and then deburr it, and then use this shark bite attachment?
Not a fan of shark bites so I wouldn't know.
Do you have any ideas of what I can do if the pipe breaks when I try to take the valve off? The other end of the pipe is far behind the wall and I don’t have access to it so I can’t take it off if it breaks. Just in case it breaks, what would you say I should do?
I'd call in a plumber at that point.
Did service on home water equipment for years. Would definitely recommend stacking brass tees instead of cutting into that shitty poly water filter line, as others have suggested. We used push-on fittings (John Guest) which are guaranteed to have compressed o-rings after about 6 years. Poly also deforms due to the pressure of the o-ring seal. They caused soooo much water damage. I simply could not understand why the company insisted on using that crap. Can't see shark bite performing any better on poly.
I've always called the product you were initially trying to find a tee stop, though it seems Amazon has a different name.
Just zoomed the pic. Why the hell is your dishwasher supply hooked to the cold water supply? That's odd to me.
Picture was deleted, but why would that be odd to you, how are you getting water to your dishwasher?
Dishwashers use only hot water, never cold. The dishwasher has it's own heating elements it can use to heat water to the correct temperature, but the dishwasher's heating system is less efficient than your water heater.
Must be another UK vs US thing, here in UK we generally connect only the cold mains to dishwashers.
Yeah It was done wrong by the previous owner. so I’ll move it. Once I take the tee out, how do I put the pipe back into the bottom shutter valve? Do I just put Teflon tape on the pipe and then push it into the shutter valve?
Those old ass valves are likely junk.
That's why they added more valves.
If you are going to move that DW T you're going to have to shut off the main.
Any threaded pipe needs pipe dope.
Compression fittings (like dishwasher line and faucet lines) don't need anything as they are a mechanical seal and they'll have a rubber gasket in the end of the line
The dishwasher should have a separate shut off. If you are doing it,do it right and add one.
Once the main is being shut off, is it hard to replace the old shut off valve on the bottom and the pipe? If not, what should I replace then with?
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have more specific advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
What I would do
Wait til Monday because an emergency plumber on the weekend cost 2x.
Shut off water
Drain system
Careful remove those valves. Unscrew the flex lines. Remove everything coming up from the old valves. Make sure to use 2 wrenches to counter hold the fixture so you don't accidentally snap anything off.
Remove the old valves holding the pipe coming out of the wall. Hopefully the threads stay on the pipe .
If that all comes apart without incident you've pretty much done it.
You need to verify the size of the pipe from the wall- is it 1/2 or 3/8" NPT (national pipe thread)
Find new quarter turn stops that fit that pipe(1/2 FPT(female pipe thread) x 3/8 compression is common)
You can find bullhead stops as well, so each fixture has a valve. 1/2 NPT x 3/8comp x 3/8 comp for dishwasher and likely one with a 3/8 & 1/4 comp for cold side.
https://www.lowes.com/pd/SharkBite-Brass-1-2-in-Fip-x-3-8-in-Compression-Quarter-Turn/1001852370
Now that would work to get you back to where you are now,. looking for a place to connect the fridge.
You can use a compression T https://www.lowes.com/pd/Dial-Brass-Evaporative-Cooler-Water-Hook-Up-Kit/3092871
But I'd use 1/4" copper tubing to connect that tee to the stop.
Then you'll have 2 @1/4 compression and one 3/8 compression fitting for sink, water filter and fridge.
The hot side you'll have 2 @ 3/8 for the faucet and the dishwasher
Thank you so so much!! That was very detailed and helpful!! I really appreciate it!
In case the pipe thread does come off, what would I do? I don’t have access to the other side of the pipe as it’s behind the wall…Would there be a way to fix it with an adaptor or something?
One more question if you don’t mind: Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
Sometimes the pipe threads/ end of pipe can be removed with an easy out, if not that's where the plumber and a repipe comes into play.
Likely need to open the wall. What's on the other side of this wall?
Negative on that laundry.
But if you have a plumber come they can assess the situation and make recommendations.
The other side of the wall is another apartments bedroom. I live in an apartment building (I own my unit). Thats somewhat the issue. If the pipe threads come off, the other pipe thread is far behind the wall and I’d have the break the wall. And it’s possible the next pipe behind the wall also breaks off when you try take that pipe off lol so it can be endless. The building is very old and so I’m sure the piping is very old as well. Is there a way that if the threads come off, I could cut the pipe to make the ends straight, and then attach some type of adapter or something? Or the only way is really to keep removing pipes behind the wall till you get a thread?
I imagine you can't even shut off your own unit without the whole building and thusly that assembly of stops and fittings you have there ...
I'd just add another add a t for the fridge and be done with it
Or get ready for a barely reasonable to quite large plumbers bill...
Chicago? I'd guess from the brass drain assembly.
Get an outlet cover on the electric, no reason for that.
The super can close my apartments water. I’m in NY.
If the brass pipe coming from the wall brakes off, can I cut it and then deburr it, and then use this shark bite attachment?
Now if anything goes wrong what your concerned about is the 2 pipes coming out of the walls.
These are probably corroded and mostly clogged up. The threads might stay in the valves when you go to remove it.
You may be able to unthread the pipe from the wall and replace that.
The pipe may snap off inside the wall as soon as you touch anything, and necessitate opening the wall and running new pipe to the sink.
So I’m in an apartment (I own it) and I don’t have access to behind the walls. And the end of the pipe is behind the walls. So if when I try to take off the shutter valve, the pipe cracks, or the threads for the pipe comes off with the shutter valve, the other end of the pipe is far behind the wall and I don’t have access to it to replace the whole pipe. Would there be a way to solve this issue in case it happens without removing the wall to change the pipe? Like is there an adaptor or something that I can use to attach to the pipe if it breaks off to give me a threaded end to use?
You'd be opening the wall through the back of the cabinet then.
It's probably worth every penny to have a plumber come deal with this.
They know all the tricks to help prevent the worst case.
They have insurance too. In case the worst happens and you flood the neighbors.
Turns out the bottom shutter valve actually does not work. So I’ll have to replace it. Would replacing it with this shutter valve work?
1/2-in Compression x 1/2-in Compression Brass Quarter Turn Stop Angle Valve
All I need to do is turn off the main water line, make sure the water is actually off, take off the old shutter valve, stick the new shutter valve on the pipe, tighten it with a wrench, (no pipe dope and no Teflon tape since it’s a compression fitting right?), then add another 1/2 inch pipe (copper or brass?) and I’m good?
I think you should probably get a plumber.
You need to at least learn what the common types of connections are and how to make watertight.
It looks like 3/8 pipe coming out of the wall
That valve is definitely not what you want.
Thank you so so much!!
Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
I've seen instructions that do either hot or cold - I think it comes down to what your heat source is and how long the run from heater to dishwasher is.
It was done wrong by the previous owner. so I’ll move it. Once I take the tee out, how do I put the pipe back into the bottom shutter valve? Do I just put Teflon tape on the pipe and then push it into the shutter valve?
Why take out the tee on the cold water side? Just remove the dishwasher from the tee and connect the line to the fridge there in its place. Now all you need to do is add a tee on the hot water side and reconnect the dishwasher there.
The bottom shutter valve is a little old so I don’t completely trust it. I assume that’s why they put a second shutter valve on top too. (Notice the hot water also has two shutter valves and nothing in between). So I figured it’s best to just remove it and install the water line above the second shutter valve. That way there’s only that one pipe between the two shutter valves. What do you think?
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have more specific advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
Turns out the bottom shutter valve actually does not work. So I’ll have to replace it. Would replacing it with this shutter valve work?
1/2-in Compression x 1/2-in Compression Brass Quarter Turn Stop Angle Valve
All I need to do is turn off the main water line, make sure the water is actually off, take off the old shutter valve, stick the new shutter valve on the pipe, tighten it with a wrench, (no pipe dope and no Teflon tape since it’s a compression fitting right?), then add another 1/2 inch pipe (copper or brass?) and I’m good?
Thank you so so much!!
Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
Thx! I’m also gonna take the bottom Tee for the dishwasher and move it to the hot water side. Once I take the tee out, how do I put the pipe back into the bottom shutter valve? Do I just put Teflon tape on the pipe and then push it into the shutter valve?
The tee you're talking about has npt threads. Always use thread sealer, such as Teflon tape, on npt threads.
Looks like a close (short) nipple going from valve to tee, then of course a longer nipple used as a riser. I can't tell what material the supply lines are made of, tho. If they're galvanized, find another way to perform this surgery. If the supply is pvc, just be careful. If it's copper you'll still have to be careful, though it's far less prone to snapping off in your hand and causing a mess.
Suggestion: Since you don't trust the original shutoff, install a shutoff valve on the existing tee for the fridge cold water supply line and add a 3/8 x 3/8 x 3/8 stop tee to the hot side for your dishwasher supply line. Some day you may find it very useful to shut off the water supply to the fridge for a couple days and still have a cold water supply. Your local hardware store should have all those parts, but often the bastards don't.
Fuck. You're in an apartment? Definitely do the suggested route instead of moving the npt tee. You don't want to do anything that could break stuff and cause water damage. Your deposit is at stake.
Edit: swypo
I own the apartment. I’m hearing the water line pipes may not be suitable for water. What do you think?
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have any advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
Turns out the bottom shutter valve actually does not work. So I’ll have to replace it. Would replacing it with this shutter valve work? (I own the apartment.)
1/2-in Compression x 1/2-in Compression Brass Quarter Turn Stop Angle Valve
All I need to do is turn off the main water line, make sure the water is actually off, take off the old shutter valve, stick the new shutter valve on the pipe, tighten it with a wrench, (no pipe dope and no Teflon tape since it’s a compression fitting right?), then add another 1/2 inch pipe (copper or brass?) and I’m good?
Compression valves like the one you linked will work fine on naked copper, but are useless on threaded pipe.
The major issue will be getting the old valves removed without snapping anything off. If the pipes coming out of the wall are galvanized iron they are a ticking time bomb, but the pipes they are connected to would most likely also be galvanized iron. Ergo, wrenching on those valves could snap off pipe in the wall. You'll have to be very careful, and even that may not be good enough.
Back in the day, I helped out an old man whose bathroom shutoff valves were leaking at the galvanized threads. Was going to try to tighten the valves onto the pipe, but as soon as I bumped the cold valve with a pipe wrench it shot off like a rocket. Water was everywhere in an instant. Oops. Learned that day to shut off water before sneezing on galvanized pipe. It was 1/2" galvanized pipe. Luckily I had some 5/8" fittings which fit well enough into the remaining threads to stop the leak. Considered myself very lucky that the pipe didn't break in the wall while installing.
If I'm seeing things wrong and that's brass coming out of the wall, removing the old valve may not risk snapping the pipe off at the threads going into the valve. However, that piece of pipe is threaded into something and odds are very high that the pipe within the wall is galvanized. I simply cannot tell.
Any surgery involving old galvanized pipe risks opening a pandora's box of plumbing issues. Attempting repair of one bit can lead to the next bit farther back breaking. Attempting to fix that next bit can break the next one back.
I totally get your determination to remove that jackass bandaid job, as redundant nonfunctional valves are stupid and the whole thing looks like shit. I'd definitely handle such an issue myself, as I have all the tools and skills to handle the repair and deal with any resulting damage. However, I fear you may lack a few necessary tools and skills. I encourage getting the tools and earning the skills rather than calling a price gouging vulture in nearly all cases, but this particular mission carries a lot of extra risk and may not be the ideal situation for breaking your plumbing cherry. Adding a valve for the drinking water and dishwasher is much simpler and less prone to causing major issues, albeit another jackass bandaid of a repair.
If you must do this surgery, secure the pipe coming out of the wall with a pipe wrench to make sure the only thing that turns is the old valve you are removing. The new valve must have the appropriate npt threads to fit the old pipe. I'm guessing its 1/2" npt, but it could be 3/4" or an oddball size. Assuming it is 1/2" npt, I would use this type of valve to accommodate the sink and dishwasher/ fridge and add a stop tee on the cold side for drinking water. Obviously longer lines or extensions would be needed to connect the faucet.
Hey, I have another question. I’m hearing the water line pipes may not be suitable for water. What do you think?
Here are some better pictures of the pIpes:
Do you have any advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, what do you think I should use to replace it with?
It's an apartment. Replacing that stuff isn't on you, but if you alter it and it causes damage that could be on you.
The old valve is brass and some old brass valves had lead, especially in the packing around the valve stem. Also not uncommon for old brass fittings to have a little lead. Does that valve have lead? I dunno.
The shiny spots in the threads on the riser lead me to believe it's brass. That's good. Can't tell for certain if the pipe coming out of the wall is a brass nipple or galvanized. Brass and copper are great for durability. Galvanized sucks, as the protective coating goes away from the inside, which then leads to rusting. The thinnest part of galvanized pipe is where it's threaded, so if it's old and rusted inside that's exactly where it can break off and force you into a plumber or maintenance man situation.
Besides a slight possibility of lead contamination, whatever pipe is bringing water into your house is perfectly suitable for water delivery. The alternative is for the landlord to rip out the entirety of water pipe in the building and replace with pex or copper. Such surgery is very costly, so that is unlikely to happen until the entire building starts having incessant plumbing issues.
Reverse osmosis water filtration can remove nearly all heavy metals and other undesirable crap from the water, so if you're gonna replace anything I'd recommend upgrading to RO for your drinking water and also run the RO to your fridge. Reverse osmosis needs a place to dump the trash water, which would require drilling a hole in the sink drain and installing a fitting (usually comes with the RO kit). You'd also have to replace the drinking water faucet to the one that comes with the RO kit, as it has an air gap (or damn well should) for the trash water. RO systems produce water very slowly, thus they come with a holding tank. It'll still come out slow like the current filter, but you can be assured that it's much cleaner.
Thank you so so much!!
Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
It's possible, but washing machines are high water demand appliances so expect longer run time for both dishwasher and washing machine if you run them at the same time.
A major concern is draining the washing machine, as those things dump a huge amount of water. The kitchen sink drain is only 1.5" pipe, though they often go into 2" pipe at the wall. Washing machine drains usually go straight into 2" pipe and must have an air gap.
Dumping it into the sink could provide an air gap and a decent baffle tank, but this would not be an elegant solution. Putting a tee into your kitchen drain line, running a pipe through the cabinet, then installing a riser to the height of the kitchen countertop could work. Just strap the riser to the cabinet and hook the washing machine drain into it. If you install the tee after the sink J trap, you'll also need to put a J trap on your newly jackassed washing machine drain line.
Your case looks special, in that you have fancy kitchen drain line shit. Assuming that J trap has 2" threads, if you can remove that reducer tee from the J trap and install a 2" tee, then install your reducer tee on top of that, things could work quite nicely. Of course, you'd have to shorten this sink drain pipes a bit too get them hooked back up.
This could cause a building code violation, but as long as you don't get caught it's better than trips to the laundromat. You may also want to make sure you're even allowed to have a washing machine, as the first unbalanced load will rat out your washing machine ownership to all of your neighbors.
The only other thing to consider is that washing machines also dump huge amounts of lint down the drain. This is only a concern if the building has iron sewer pipe, as the rust chunks can cause lint buildup.
P.S. if/when you have to replace your kitchen sink drain pipes, do not use the thin brass nonsense. Plastic will not etch out over time, but thin brass will. If you live there long enough, you'll see exactly what I'm taking about.
Thank you!!
If the brass pipe coming from the wall brakes off, can I cut it and then deburr it, and then use this shark bite attachment?
The pipe coming from the wall as drain line should be 2", and hopefully not iron pipe. .....but very often it is iron. This larger pipe is less apt to break.
As for the 1/2" galvanized supply lines, I would recommend against any shark bite type fitting going onto galvanized pipe. It's kinda rough and may not make a good seal. Also, if galvanized pipe breaks off there's still gonna be threads which can be sharp enough to damage the o-ring in a shark bite fitting.
Perhaps I am a minority, but my experience with shitty 1/4" and 3/8" shark bite type fittings biased me against that crap all together. Sure o-ring technology may have improved such that they don't crush in 6 years and leak if you sneeze on them after the o-rings are deformed. Still, I will never use shark bite type fittings if any other solution exists.
If the 1/2" pipe breaks off at the valve, you'd be much better off trying to jackass it with something threaded. The fitting I used for that purpose may have had female 5/8 flare threads. It took a lot of Teflon tape and threaded past the remaining 1/2" npt threads. Wish I could find an example part on Amazon, but didn't have any luck.
Wish I lived close enough to just help you with this task, but guessing you are nowhere near Jackson, MS.
Thank you so much for the help! I’m from NY 😞 Would have loved the help. I’ll let you know how it goes!
New York?! The only place with prices as bad as California, or even worse? No wonder you don't want to hire a plumber! Good luck with the project!
Lmaooo I did bring two plumbers for quotes for the washing machine. They both asked for $4,000+ Crazy
Fucks sake. You mean, all this time I could have been commuting from Mississippi to New York to make a killing doing simple plumbing work? Meh. Probably too much licensing and permit requirements.
Lmaooo you think the plumbers I called are licensed and insured?? That would cost even more.
Many of the plumbers here, have no licenses or insurance.
Even the others, only the head of the company is a licensed and insured plumber. All their workers have no licenses.
Plumbing and electrical is crazy here. They charge $200 just to come to your house. Then if the job is 5 minutes max (like just changing an outlet or a simple shutter valve) they’ll charge another $300 for labor. And charge you $500 total.
Keep in mind though, the boss is keeping all the money. The workers are just getting paid a low hourly wage and maybe some commission.
It's the same everywhere, in that a company will ride a bunch of low hourly workers on one guy's high hourly license. I get that service trucks and tools are expensive, but that guy can fuck right off. Idgaf how much profit he has after paying for all that equipment and whatnot. Would rather have a reasonable wage so I can afford my own damn equipment. I've picked up several trades out of necessity or to prevent having to deal with such vultures. Been a long time since I've had to call a mechanic, electrician, plumber, carpenter, welder, locksmith, appliance repairman, or hvac guy. The only licensing I ever bothered with was the EPA 608 license for hvac. Holy hell those hvac tools were expensive, but they paid for themselves in like 2 side jobs that I did for several thousand dollars less than the big guys quoted.
To be honest, I’m getting tempted to just leave it all as it is, and just add in another 1/4 tee above the current 1/4 tee for the fridge and leave it all be. At the end of the day, my initial question was just “can I add a Tee on top of the Tee” and I got my answer which was a yes lol
At the end of the day, if the pipe coming out of the wall snaps, there doesn’t seem be anyway to solve the issue other than taking that pipe off. Which can then cause the pipe in the wall to snap off and cause a bigger headache. Worse, it’s possible that when I try to take off the valve, the piping in the wall is galvanized pipe and that snaps off in the wall. I don’t really have the thousands of dollars it would cost to hire a plumber to fix that issue. Given how I don’t know if the pipe in the wall is an old rusted and corroded galvanized pipe that could snap in an instant when I try to remove the old valve, I feel as though this is just to risky for me.
I don’t know. What do you think?
What I'd do: Add a 3/8 tee to the hot side and connect the dishwasher to a hot water source, as God intended. Add a valve to the old dishwasher cold water supply and connect the fridge to that.
There's no harm in leaving the dishwasher connected as it is and putting a tee on the cold side. However, a dishwasher issue will result in having to shut off the water. Only costs a few bucks to add a valve there.
Do you have dishwasher hooked into cold side as well?
I'd just a t to the hot side moving the dishwasher over and that would solve the problem.
Alternatively you could replace the single shutoff valve and get a split shutoff valve for one side giving you two connection points.
That's quite the setup down there. Two sets of shutoffs for each water line and copper drains. Is there some galvanized line down there as well?
The bottom shut off valve isn’t the greatest so I want to just move the dishwasher tee out altogether and put it on the hot water side. Once I take the tee out, how do I put the pipe back into the bottom shutter valve? Do I just put Teflon tape on the pipe and then push it into the shutter valve?
Yes you would just need to remove the t and put the rest of that side back together without it. Use Teflon tape and probably have some pipe dope in case you struggle to get a leak tight seal.
Personally this would be a great opportunity to just run some pex since that galvanized line starts to corrode inside over time.
Not sure what the rest of your system looks like but if you can take all of that out and get back to copper you'd be doing yourself a favor long term.
When you talk about galvanized pipe, which pipe are you referring too? The one narrow pipe on each of the hot and cold water lines? If yes, are you saying I should replace it with Pex or copper?
Also I live in an apartment, so what you see is all that I see too. I don’t have access to behind the walls. Can’t really replace the bottom shut off valve without the super turning off the water either. Which pipes are you specifically saying that I should replace with copper?
I’m somewhat just confused by which pipes you think I should replace with PEX and which pipes I should replace with copper.
All of that threaded pipe that is your water line appears to be galvanized. Although from the picture it actually looks like black iron gas pipe.
If you don't own the house just remove the t on the cold side and get a new threaded T for the hot side.
I do own the apartment. Does this picture help identify the pipe?
Yea I think they used black iron 🤣. Definitely not done by a plumber.
Lmaoo damn. So then I guess I should replace it? What should I replace it with?
Pex is the easiest solution you can get an adapter for 1/2 threaded pipe and then use shark bite fittings or get pex crimp rings and the tool to tighten them. Copper would require you to solder at some juncture. But again I'd need to see your whole system to give you the best options. YouTube is your friend. Plenty of videos on all the connectors and ways to accomplish this.
Here are some better pictures of the pipes:
Do you have more specific advice based on these pictures? Like does the pipe need to be removed? Or is it fine as is? If it should be replaced, you think Pex is the best bet?
Turns out the bottom shutter valve actually does not work. So I’ll have to replace it. Would replacing it with this shutter valve work?
1/2-in Compression x 1/2-in Compression Brass Quarter Turn Stop Angle Valve
All I need to do is turn off the main water line, make sure the water is actually off, take off the old shutter valve, stick the new shutter valve on the pipe, tighten it with a wrench, (no pipe dope and no Teflon tape since it’s a compression fitting right?), then add another 1/2 inch pipe (copper or brass?) and I’m good?
No again I can't see whats coming front hr wall but it appears to be a threaded end. You will need a threaded compression valve to twist into the existing pipe, compression only works on copper.
I recommend shopping for parts through supplyhouse.com. you can even call and they will take you through what you'll need.
The stub coming from the wall being threaded will require a female end quarter stop to 3/8 threaded end for your T to attach your water line to fridge and the cold water for your faucet mixer.
As long as your other shutoff above it works there isn't really a need to remove the old one either. I would just leave it be personally.
As long as your other shutoff above it works there isn't really a need to remove the old one either. I would just leave it be personally.
Thank you so so much!!
Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
Not easily. You'd probably want a plumber for that.
I brought in two plumbers a month ago and they both told me I couldn’t do it because I need a SUDS line and they would need to make another vent for the washer and they wanted $4,000+.
I don’t see why I need a SUDS line if it’s a high efficiency washer. Do I still need a SUDS line? Or can I just use my kitchen drain?
For the vent, if I use a 3 inch P-trap, I should have 12 feet worth of room to work with no? I don’t see why there would be a need to install a separate vent for the washer. I’ve also seen online some people just use the same P trap they are using for the dishwasher and kitchen faucet for the washing machine too. So I’m not sure if that’s okay to do here too.
Any ideas?
Thank you so much for all of your help so far!
Yea I'm siding with the plumbers here. You need a vent and a proper drain and that's the issue. The water supply is not a problem but to drain and vent properly.
To do this the right way you need access behind your cabinets and to cut along studs to run everything behind the wall. It's a fairly big job, 4000 seems a tad high but not out of line. You might be able to save some money by running the water lines yourself.
You could try an oatey sure vent so you don't have to vent outside but you might find that doesn't fully vent your sewer gas and you'll get smells inside.
Before I ask about the washer, I have a quick question. I’m realizing now that when I try to take off the shutter valve, the pipe may crack, or the threads for the pipe might come off with the shutter valve. If that happens, the other end of the pipe is far behind the wall and I don’t have access to it to replace the whole pipe. Would there be a way to solve this issue in case it happens without removing the wall to change the pipe? Like is there an adaptor or something that I can use to attach to the pipe if it breaks off to give me a threaded end to use?
If you break a section you'll need to move further down the line to the next threaded section and attach there.
The issue is the end of that pipe is far behind the wall and i don’t have access to it. Is there anyway to cut the pipe straight if it breaks and then use an adapter of some sort?
(In theory if you were to break the wall and then take the end of the pipe in the wall off, you can run into the same issue again where the next pipe breaks or it’s threads come off since the building piping I’m sure is really old).
No.
How about this? If the brass pipe coming from the wall brakes off, can I cut it and then deburr it, and then use this shark bite attachment?
You don't have brass. You have galvanized pipe. You can't shark bite galvanized pipe you would need a threaded adapter at some juncture to go from galvanized to another pipe material.
Doesn’t galvanized pipe fall under IPS? (I’m not questioning. I’m just trying to learn).
Also, how can you tell the pipe coming from the wall is galvanized and not brass? Isn’t galvanized usually steel color?
It's all threaded pipe from what I can see. You cannot just cut galvanized and reconnect with a sharkbite because of the outside diameter. Sure the IPS is all the same but the sharkbite has an ops that is less than galvanized line. Secondly they are not designed for galvanized line.you can get a female 1/2" threaded to sharkbite and screw the thread into your existing line and then convert the rest to copper or pex, but at some point it appears you need a threaded connection along the way. The only way you can cut a pipe and use a sharkbite is on copper or pex.
I think you need a plumber at this point.
The other question here is how are you going to shutoff to make these changes? The t you want to move is below your working shutoff. If this is an apartment I'm not sure you'll be able to do the shutoff further down the line and not affect your neighbors.
I believe the super can turn off my water and do it. I’ll let you know how it goes!
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Change out your angle valve to a double supply line
Plumber here, here's how I would go about it.
Those are either 1/2" brass or painted 1/2" galvanized steel pipes coming from the wall. They should not be black iron, as it was never ok for water, only gas. If you're curious if they are steel or brass, a magnet won't stick to brass. Either way, they both have a 1/2" threaded connection.
The line on the left is hot water, the line on the right is cold. Your dishwasher should be tied into the hot water line.
I would start from scratch and replace both stops.
You'll want 1/2" FIP X 3/8 compression angle stops. You posted a 1/2" compression stop elsewhere, that won't work. You need the 1/2" npt female threaded type, which will probably be listed as 1/2" FIP X whatever size you want to use. Let's go 1/2" FIP X 3/8 compression for both hot and cold. (Note the shortcut below). These angle stop's threaded 1/2" connection to the wall pipes will be the only place you use Teflon tape. Compression and rubber seals do not require it and you might compromise their seals if you do.
Hot side: after installing the angle stop, get a 3/8 X 3/8 brass add-a-tee. One outlet will be for your dishwasher, the other your faucet. Your faucet hose might not reach now, so maybe get a 12" (or whatever length reaches) 3/8 female comp X 3/8 male comp stainless steel braided supply line to bridge the gap.
Cold side: the shortcut would be if you can find this guy. The 1/4" outlet will go to your fridge. The 3/8" outlet, you will add a 3/8X1/4 add-a-tee. The 1/4" port on the add a tee will attach to your white plastic water line (there should be a stainless steel or brass tubular insert inside of the plastic pipe to avoid crushing it when tightening). The other 3/8 port will go to your faucet. Again, you may need another 3/8 female X 3/8 male comp supply line to extend it to reach.
If you can't find the shortcut double angle stop, get another 3/8 X 1/4" add a tee.
That should do it! Hope this helps, I love you.
Thank you so so much!! That was so incredibly detailed and helpful!! I really owe you so so much!!
I have to ask since you really seem to be able to explain things well: Do you think it would be possible to setup a washing machine to get hot/cold water and drain to under the kitchen sink?
Short answer, no, not without extensive work. You're better off hiring a licensed plumber for that kind of addition if you want to do it right.
Another thing to mention, when you remove the old valves from the pipes coming from the wall, you should use two wrenches. Ideally, a small pipe wrench for the pipe coming from the wall, and an adjustable wrench or tongue and groove pliers for the valve. Two t&g pliers would also be just fine if you don't mind some cosmetic scratches.
One will be used to remove the valve, the other pair will be placed in the opposite direction to HOLD THAT WALL PIPE STILL
Don't let the pipe coming from the wall rotate or you might have to unthread it completely and reapply tape/dope to reseal it. Speaking of tape and dope, tape should only ever be applied clockwise, otherwise tightening a new fitting can unwrap the tape. So when you remove that valve, looking down the barrel of that wall pipe, you'll apply 3-4 full wraps of tape in a clockwise direction. You won't need pipe dope, but I always smear a real small amount onto the tape. It makes it take that much less effort to tighten things together. A sharp knife is less dangerous than a dull one, and you'll need less force in an already awkward position (working under sinks is fun!) to properly tighten things up. Think snug, not cranked on. There's nothing to be gained from overtightening.
Sorry one last question. I’m realizing now that when I try to take off the shutter valve, the pipe may crack, or the threads for the pipe might come off with the shutter valve. If that happens, the other end of the pipe is far behind the wall and I don’t have access to it to replace the whole pipe. Would there be a way to solve this issue in case it happens without removing the wall to change the pipe? Like is there an adaptor or something that I can use to attach to the pipe if it breaks off to give me a threaded end to use?
In 13 years I've never had threads "come off" with the pipe. The only thing I've had happen is the pipe would crush when I beared down while removing. Those pipes I knew were unlikely to hold up though because they were so corroded, and were steel-steel. Yours looks like it's in remarkably good shape to me and I would have no worries about it. Brass-steel is much easier to remove and brass-brass even more so. That said, nothing in life is guaranteed and yea you might be in trouble if something were to break. If it comes to that, you can cut off the damaged threads and after sanding/cleaning any scratches or scapes off the pipe use an IPS (iron pipe size, same outside diameter as galvanized steel, brass, and PVC) shark bite like this and continue your work exactly like you would have done, or if it's a hard to find item you can probably more easily find a shark bite 1/2" IPS cap to install until you can get the parts you need. Rethreading the pipe is also possible but not an option I'd go for at that point.
Your best bet to avoid damage is to make sure your wrenches are secure while you're removing the old shut off valve, and put your leverage into the wrenches, not the pipe. I see guys put their weight into the wrench and it puts stress on the pipe.
Thank you so much!
Here are some better pictures of the pipe. This is brass?
Also, the fitting you gave me is technically for PVC. It would be ok to use for those pipes if they are cut off?
Hard to tell if it's brass or not, but I'm leaning towards yes. The angle stop definitely is. If you rub sandpaper on the pipe it should look gold if it's brass, silver if steel. If you have a nice strong magnet to test with the brass will not stick to it. That link I posted is for a PVC transition but it says it's also for ips. PVC, iron, steel, and brass piping all have the same outside diameter, so it should fit. I've never used an IPS one because I've never had to and in general I prefer not to use shark bites (they very rarely fail but are not the most reliable method of repair) but from the description it does say it works for IPS. If you do have to use a shark bite, the pipe must be damn near perfectly smooth and without scrapes or burrs or else it will damage the shark bite's o-ring and cause a leak.
I don't think you'll have an issue unthreading the old valve, I just want to give you some emergency options.
Ok—thank you so so much! I’ll let you know how it goes!
Please do!
To be honest, I’m getting tempted to just leave it all as it is, and just add in another 1/4 tee above the current 1/4 tee for the fridge and leave it all be. At the end of the day, my initial question was just “can I add a Tee on top of the Tee” and I got my answer which was a yes lol
At the end of the day, if the pipe coming out of the wall snaps, there doesn’t seem be anyway to solve the issue other than taking that pipe off. Which can then cause the pipe in the wall to snap off and cause a bigger headache. Worse, it’s possible that when I try to take off the valve, the piping in the wall is galvanized pipe and that snaps off in the wall. I don’t really have the thousands of dollars it would cost to hire a plumber to fix that issue. Given how I don’t know if the pipe in the wall is an old rusted and corroded galvanized pipe that could snap in an instant when I try to remove the old valve, I feel as though this is just to risky for me.
I don’t know. What do you think? Do you think it’s really a small risk? I’m just scared the pipe behind the wall might be an old and corroded galvanized pipe that can burst and cause me issues. Even if the pipe coming out of the wall bursts, I don’t know if using that shark bite is the best idea since it’s “technically“ not made for brass but PVC. And I assume I’d have to remove the pipe to rethread it. So this whole job just seems very risky and I just don’t know if it’s worth. If something breaks, it doesn’t seem like I could permanently fix it without calling in a plumber and spending $1000+. I’m from NY so it’s really expensive here.
You have any thoughts? You think it’s low risk and I could do it? If something breaks, you have any other suggestions in case the shark bite fitting doesn’t work on the brass?
It's easy for me to say I'd go for it, but I could fix it if it broke, and I kind of have the muscle memory to know "this is gonna break if I have to wrench on it harder". If one of my employees just added a tee, I'd be irritated because it would be lazy work, and the customer doesn't hire us to do lazy work.
But! Adding another tee is 100% possible, and while I would never do it, you definitely can and I give you my blessing to just add the tee and leave it at that 👍 it'll still be better than government work!
Also do you need gas line for the dryer or electric hooked up... Not sure if that was included in the cost as well.
furgurburgur t1_j5wkpw1 wrote
You could probably also just use a ¼in sharkbite tee