help me re-wire my outlet/switch properly

Submitted by kraizy420 t3_11e6obr in DIY

Switched outlet has "open neutral" when switch is off, and shows "wired correctly" when switch is on

All other outlets in the room show "wired correctly" so the only thing upstream is the switch, and who knows what is upstream from that. The only reason I noticed this, is because I replaced a regular switch with a rocker switch that has a tiny locator light built-in that wasn't illuminating. So now I'm trying to figure out whats going on. Thoughts?

I've also realized that with the outlet tester plugged in, the locator light on the switch illuminates.. when I remove the outlet tester, no more locator light

It appears the switch has red and gray wires, with white wires bundled behind it in the box.. and then the outlet has red and white wires with a gray wire looped between two conduit pipes as seen in the bottom photo..

I'm at a loss, appreciate any help!

https://i.stack.imgur.com/vc2kz.jpg

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DragNutts t1_jacmzpn wrote

Call an electrician. Trust me on this!

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LunaticScientist t1_jad09fk wrote

Sounds like you've got a Chicago 3-way setup. Especially since it's an older house, literally in Chicago. It can be used for non-3-way stuff, but this was most common for a jumped/shared neutral.

https://youtu.be/qjOth4dnMxo

The issue with your switch is that it relies on a dedicated ground and neutral circuit (which you don't have). Had this problem in my 1950s house until that circuit was rewired to modern standards.

Simple solution: skip the illuminated switch.

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tob007 t1_jad8f7o wrote

think it isI called Carter switching as well. Lots of old school ways to do 3-ways.

In some parts of Europe all switches work on the neutrals.

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Monst3rMark t1_jadp3wp wrote

Electrician here, you should take everyone’s advice and contact a licensed Electrician to trace out the wires and see exactly what is what.

Now that that’s been said, were I to come and look at this issue, my first check would be to ensure that the little tabs on the outlet are still there. (Little red squares in photo) You could be getting an opened neutral if that tab is busted. The blue power wire looks to just carry onto the next outlet or device. Meaning that this outlet will only work when the switch is on.

Whenever we install a switched outlet we would leave the bottom outlet with constant power, and only switch the top half of it. This is when you would remove the little tab on the HOT side, to separate it. The neutral tab should still be intact.

Next would be to check that the wires are all Connected well under the marrettes or wire nuts. Wires will sometimes break or snap at the marrette through over tightening.

I drew up a quick wire diagram of what we know from the photos.

If those tabs are gone for whatever reason, I would replace the outlet instead of trying to add more wires.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/718892278931783726/1080189524740681849/IMG_1393.jpg

Hope this helps a bit.

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kraizy420 OP t1_jadt5yc wrote

Appreciate your time and efforts.. the tabs are still present on both sides of the outlet.. and everything has been inspected and tightened in both boxes

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kraizy420 OP t1_jae3rgt wrote

Your diagram is spot on.. but I still don't know the solution to my problem?

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brock_lee t1_jacn1jo wrote

Well it certainly sounds like they switched to neutral wire rather than the hot wire. But the colors in your picture confuse me. Is this the US?

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kraizy420 OP t1_jacn4qm wrote

Yeah, suburbs of chicago

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brock_lee t1_jacnln0 wrote

Yeah I think the electrician is in order. It kind of looks like there's two neutral wires on the outlet and then they connected a hot wire and a neutral wire somewhere, so when you plug in the tester it actually is completing the circuit which is really not good.

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PowerfulFunny5 t1_jacsg2j wrote

Ahh, where local code requires conduit. (Instead of allowing Romex)

I might be seeing a grey wire and a white wire, so there might be the intent that grey is hot and white is neutral, but an electrician should check.

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LunaticScientist t1_jad0qe6 wrote

Assuming this is an older house, it likely had old cloth Romex which would've needed a conduit to conduct ground if plumbing was not near. The red/gray/black combo looks like it was updated at some point.

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Darkassassin07 t1_jacsvxu wrote

Yeah, you're going to want an electrician to trace those wires. You're definitely missing a junction point somewhere (that shouldn't be there, but it is). It may be burried in a wall or ceiling where it shouldn't be, but things don't always get done up to code (you're wiring colour scheme is evidence of that).

Gotta figure out where those grey wires go as neither connects to the outlet, but the switch still controls the outlet. There's a puzzle piece missing.

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9yr0ld t1_jacu7fe wrote

my best guess is the issue isn't actually in the switch or the outlet. you'll need to check out other outlets on the circuit to see if any of them are wired funky. even if they're operating, it does not mean they're correct.

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robangryrobsmash t1_jadv8br wrote

If you have a power tester, which wires are hot? I'd bet money red is hot and what you have is a shared neutral situation going on. You'll find what is shared when you disconnect the wires. It'll probably be whatever circuit is on the other side of the wall. That said, that is the laziest way I've seen that setup done.

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