Oak veneer countertop discoloured where sanded

Submitted by kimchifarts123 t3_118jha4 in DIY

I'm doing a kitchen countertop replacement using oak veneer units from IKEA. Because of the length, a butt joint was required which was done using biscuit joiners, miter bolts, and wood glue. For some reason in spite of the biscuits there was a small vertical misalignment across the joint so I sanded it flush with 150 grit after the glue dried. I then lightly sanded over that area and all other counter surfaces with 220. 

After sanding, the area at the joint appeared lighter than the rest (my guess is because the treatment IKEA puts on was removed). I then applied mineral oil sealer to the whole counter and the sanded area at the joint now appears darker as shown in the photo.

Should I re-sand the entire counter and re-seal? Or any other methods for getting even colour across the length of the counter?

I also did a 45 degree miter joint at corner on the other end which didn't require sanding at the joint and didn't have this issue. 

https://i.imgur.com/fZ8qDfJ.jpg

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Edit: Thank you all for the responses. Super helpful. Because of the risk of sanding through I'm leaning towards leaving it. The original photo was at an angle and with lighting that made the difference most visible.

I still have some larger spare cuts of the countertop material and the sink cut-out so I'm planning to experiment on those. Will recreate the issue (sand down a section through stock coating then coat all of it with mineral oil) then I'll see if I can sand the whole thing down to untreated wood without breaking through the veneer.

Here are a couple shots in better lighting and showing current status. Put in a tile backsplash (not grouted yet), final step will be a new faucet.

https://i.imgur.com/1XIwZYm.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Eiz3vru.jpg

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Comments

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AccomplishedEnergy24 t1_j9imj8c wrote

Using veneer for countertops is .. living dangerously already.

Sanding more is dangerous. This is 1/8th veneer, which stands some chance, but ...

Ikea also claims to use a UV cured finish on these. You will never match that, either in toughness, or in exact coloration, with a random mineral oil. If you want consistent coloring, you will have to resand the entire thing.

Depending on veneer thickness, and also what's under it, it's also unfortunately possible for the oil to soak all the way through the veneer and puddle a bit. Sort of like stains under your carpet.

Honestly, i'm not sure i'd try to fix this unless you are willing to redo it entirely.

A. It's very easy to sand through veneer if you aren't experienced

B. You will have to have strip the entire UV lacquer off (which will be very difficult) to get the color consistent with any form of oil (since it will need to soak into pores at an identical rate everywhere). This is going to be hard without sanding through the veneer, depending on the coating. Some UV coatings i have had to strip are tough enough that anything less than 120 grit takes forever. But once you are through at that grit, if you hit it for one more extra second you will destroy the countertop by sanding through the veneer.

C. You are going to take off a much more protective finish and use a much less one, which, on veneer, is going to dramatically shorten the usable lifetime.

This is pretty risky. I would also say - if you do go for it and accidentally ruin it, you can get wide plank red oak countertops (non-veneer) for reasonable prices if you look around. These will last basically forever and you won't have to worry about (you can steam out dents, etc).

You can also just get them in custom lengths/widths/etc made for you, so you have no seams in the straight part.

Example: https://hardwood-lumber.com/red-oak-wide-plank-butcher-block-countertop/

(this was the first one that popped up, there were a lot)

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eveningtrain t1_j9ipets wrote

This post has the answer. The finish that you used is causing the color difference. Mineral oil, like any oil finish, soaks into the grain of the wood. It makes it look wet, deep, and sometimes almost translucent. Think about how a drop of oil looks on a piece of paper, and then imagine that soaking in through all the wood fibers. Mineral oil is colorless and doesn’t amber like linseed oil does, but the depth it brings makes the wood dark.

The finish IKEA used is probably a film finish made of some kind of plastic. This post mentions a UV cured finish. It’s likely on the surface of the wood only; these finishes can be crystal clear, adding no color, which is great when wanting a cooler-hued tone to natural wood or to preserve the bright, light color of light colored woods. They might not soak in or make the wood look wet. This accounts for the color difference.

The good thing about mineral oil is that it doesn’t cure. It’s also not super resistant to water. So with use and regular cleaning, it will eventually wear or wash away, and the countertop will look lighter and even dried out. The way my cutting boards and wooden spoons get when they need oiling! Once the countertop is all dry and thirsty looking again, OP can choose a more suitably matched finished than oil was.

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AccomplishedEnergy24 t1_j9jn0et wrote

This is just about 100% right, but just to say two things:

Even with a colorless oil, or the right color (you could take colorless oil and use tints if you had to, to get it the right color) the sheen will likely be wrong, and you will still notice because it will still catch your eye.

It is basically impossible to permanently change the sheen of a non-film forming finish, because the sheen change is done with flatteners (usually silica dust or something) that sit on top of the cured finish[1], and in a non-film forming finish, it will just wipe away ;)

Also

The film finishes still wet (they have to), just not as deep. This is why some of them are not great at bonding, like epoxies - they have trouble wetting the surface, and thus, you only get a mechanical bond instead of a chemical one.

How much they wet can still be noticeable on thinner veneers, depending on the finish/backing.

Normally i'd say 1/8th veneer like this is would be fine, but red oak is very porous, and so it's harder to say.

[1] The final sheen is always determined by what is on top

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Throwaway021614 t1_j9kejet wrote

I’ll be that guy: and it’s barely noticeable

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donkeyrocket t1_j9kib7d wrote

I agree. As a recent first-time homeowner, this is going to be one of those things that bothers OP far more than anyone else even if they notice it. I have a growing list of those "personal nuisance" projects.

Fussing with this anymore is going to lead them down the path of needing to redo the whole thing as it'll be very noticeable.

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AccomplishedEnergy24 t1_j9kpqgy wrote

100%. It's like any woodworking i do - I know where all the mistakes are, and they bug me, but nobody else can ever see them. As someone once said, as you become better, you don't always make less mistakes, you just get better at hiding them.

I would put something on top of it and never worry about it. Like maybe a silicone mat or something. If you use a coffee maker or anything you should put something like that under it anyway to control spills.

There are people who want super-clear countertops 100% of the time who this would bother. I'm not one of them ;)

If i really couldn't deal with it, i'd save up the thousand bucks to get a solid red-oak plank countertop (This looks to be about 8-10 lineal feet of countertop, but maybe there's more elsewhere), and do that.

When you account for all the work and cost that would go into refinishing what's there, the price difference is not likely to be huge.

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owlpellet t1_j9l8xr3 wrote

Seems very likely IKEA is selling the absolute minimum thickness to soak up their hardening treatment. Which means sanding it all out is going to be a bad time.

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openminded74 t1_j9hooxu wrote

Be extra careful so you don't sand through the veneer it's easy to do.

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mmikke t1_j9i5ds6 wrote

I've seen many a high dollar antique ruined because someone sanded through veneer. You're absolutely correct that it is incredibly easy to do accidentally

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HoboMucus t1_j9iwgtk wrote

Any sanding at all would ruin most antiques value if what I learned on Antiques Roadshow is true.

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DonArgueWithMe t1_j9jul5e wrote

I would have thought "high value antique" and veneers were mutually exclusive

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RubyPorto t1_j9jww2y wrote

Veneers have been used in fine furniture for centuries, and that's aside from the art of marquetry.

For example, burls look pretty, but don't make a great structural choice.

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Mont-ka t1_j9jwm5i wrote

You're telling me my grandmother's Kallax isn't going to find my retirement?

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MeshColour t1_j9jx2i3 wrote

Back in the day they would take solid oak and put a veneer of exotic imported wood. Yes it was the cheaper version of the time, but it was still hand crafted and zero particle board. Worlds better craftsmanship than modern stuff

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bc2zb t1_j9k3s57 wrote

I have a book on making federal period furniture. Nearly all of the plans call for using veneer whenever possible. For example, the card table build has the legs and top being solid mahogany, but the apron would be veneered poplar or pine. The build itself is based off an actual museum piece as well, so it's not like they were trying to cheap it out for modern woodworkers.

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Guygan t1_j9hi4nh wrote

> Should I re-sand the entire counter and re-seal?

Yes.

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--Ty-- t1_j9hjyu2 wrote

But this time, OP, be thorough with it. Start at 150 grit, then do 180, then 220, taking the time to fully sand away all the marks of the previous grit (draw over the area with pencil to make sure you don't miss a spot.

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Falcfire t1_j9ihlz0 wrote

Wouldn't recommend too much sanding near veneer. Sometimes less is more.

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--Ty-- t1_j9ikxj6 wrote

As someone who has sanded through a few veneers before, you're absolutely right, but unfortunately there's no other solution. The surface roughness is inconsistent due to OP's sanding of the area at 150-grit.

Since we don't know what grit Ikea finished their own veneer to, this is now the new baseline that the whole countertop needs to be brought to.

You're right tho, this might be one of those situations where trying to fix it just ruins it entirely.

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aontachtai t1_j9irblw wrote

If you do this, you're going to sand through the paper thin veneer.

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Rumplesforeskin t1_j9jqwvh wrote

Bad idea. That veneer is very thin. 150 is too gritty. Already having oil on it, it's not going to go well sanding anymore because to make it all even would be too much for the veneer before you can evenly sand with the oil on it

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Mildly_Angry_Biscuit t1_j9hyedl wrote

Be careful about over-sanding that veneer. I would sand enough to get through the sealer. And if it were me I would use a pre-stain conditioner to try to help even the stain application. My favorite stain applicator for something like this is a regular cotton sock put over a nitrile glove - that way I can spread the stain with better control, run over spots that I may be having some trouble with, and help remove any excess applied stain with the back of my hand.

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knittorney t1_j9idamy wrote

BRILLIANT idea for staining. Thank you for this!!

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exipheas t1_j9ie2ll wrote

Go all the way and use some cheap cotton gloves over some nitrile gloves.

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lostarchitect t1_j9ijs3i wrote

I think the nitrile not absorbing the stain is part of the point.

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HoboMucus t1_j9iwm33 wrote

On top of, not instead of

Or rather, instead of the socks 😆

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LeanDixLigma t1_j9iqfn0 wrote

and keeping the stain from absorbing into your skin.

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Mildly_Angry_Biscuit t1_j9mgwvb wrote

I've found the sock works even better. You can wiggle it around to expose less-coated areas, curl your fingers down and expose more area closer to the top of the sock to absorb/spread more stain, and getting the sock off of the nitrile is easier. Plus old socks are free! The reason I specified nitrile instead of latex for the base glove is to help resist the stain. Latex will start to allow some stains to bleed through. I use 5 mil nitriles, and they're great.

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Mildly_Angry_Biscuit t1_j9msiiq wrote

Glad you liked it! Started doing the 'sock technique' a few decades ago, and I'm at the point now where its my go-to, especially on woods that take stain up a little differently in patches. Not having brushes to clean up is a huge plus, too!

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SnakeJG t1_j9ilx8y wrote

I know it is super noticable to you, but unless it's pointed out, I doubt other people will notice it. I'd just leave it.

At some point it's likely you'll need to reseal some parts anyway (somebody not using a cutting board, hot grease being spilled/splattered, etc), you can sand and reseal the whole counter then if it still bothers you.

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CommonConfusables t1_j9ipaj7 wrote

I noticed it in the thumbnail and would be irritated to see that all the time. If the vaneer is damaged or sealant ruined and not resealed it could seep in water from the nearby sink, causing more damage and repairs to complete. I would recommend finishing it up now instead of waiting for more issues later.

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SnakeJG t1_j9jhuj7 wrote

> If the veneer is damaged or sealant ruined and not resealed it could seep in water from the nearby sink, causing more damage and repairs to complete.

But that's the thing, the countertop is well sealed right now how it is. The sealant just went deeper where it was sanded more, so the color is off. If OP sands everything down with the higher grit sandpaper to reseal everything, the veneer will get thinner and if a future reseal is needed there is a bigger risk of sanding through it.

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No_Welder_9140 t1_j9iqti6 wrote

It's a finished top..you sanded off the finish my good man..never sand a finished product if it doesn't line up with the bolts and biscuits realine it

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Jumpin_Joeronimo t1_j9jcqpp wrote

No one seems to have brought up your use of mineral oil.

Regardless of your problem, mineral oil is a 'wet oil'. It is used for cutting boards and the like because you never have to worry about working through a hardened finish. It does not fully dry or cure when exposed to air. It washes off over time and will need to be reapplied. You could possibly do a whole counter in this, but usually not.

A drying oil forms a hard protective surface when exposed to air. Drying oils can be used for furniture finishes, etc, where you would never use mineral oil. Think of it like a thin varnish.

Your countertop came with a protective finish. You sanded it off and then finished with something very different that won't dry in that section. I would not doubt this IS related to your problem, causing the color difference, but just in general, don't mix wet and dry oils for finishes.

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Loquacious94808 t1_j9hunti wrote

I believe this is because of different grit being used than whatever the rest was sanded at. It will take stain and seal differently than the rest because of the number of ridges in the wood (more/shallow in high-grit sanded areas, fewer/deeper with lower grit)

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PieOverToo t1_j9iihcv wrote

If you're at the point of refinishing, I'd recommend a hardwax oil (e.g. Osmo Polyx or Rubio Monocoat). Easier to apply, but also far easier to spot repair.

As others have pointed out though: you're in a tricky spot: removing a non-film finish without sanding through the veneer, having already sanded that area could spell disaster - it may already be that the veneer is so thin near that joint that it's taking the finish differently.

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LateRiver t1_j9iv67f wrote

The discoloration is because you used an oil instead of a water base of finish. Water base is always cloudier vs oils make the wood more yellow and the grain richer.

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wilisi t1_j9j3x8m wrote

> more yellow

A linseed oil thing, moreso than an oil thing.

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stivo t1_j9j49nw wrote

I did this with ikea walnut counter tops and had the same result. There is a finish on the wood which you have sanded through. The learnings and fix for me was: (1) sand all the finish for the whole benchtop. the veneer is 2-3mm thick so it wont be an issue. (2) throw the oil in the bin and put down a nice coat of polyurethane. It looks a million bucks now.

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Rumplesforeskin t1_j9jqhq1 wrote

I would bet you will sand through the veneer if you try anymore. You should have gone with actual butcher block tops for countertops. These will not hold up well either for a kitchen. I just made 2 solid butcher block top desks with shelves and pipe legs, for computers with my cousin and we didn't use Ikea because getting solid was just not very much more money.

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jachjohnson t1_j9jyx3a wrote

Put a rubber mat or a cutting board over the spot and forget about it

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Obiwan_Salami t1_j9jikz2 wrote

a finishing repair is gonna look like a finishing repair unless you know exactly what you are doing and what colors to mix into the multiple coats of refinish to hide the repair. even for cheap-ass ikea, i'm sure they used a modern high durability finish and it probably won't be easy to match it.

lesson learned. biscuit joints aren't perfect. next time clamp something sturdy and flat across the finished side of the joint that wont stick to glue, like lumber, plywood, and wax paper.

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nosecohn t1_j9jmzgb wrote

> my guess is because the treatment IKEA puts on was removed

This would be my guess too. The only solution would be to (carefully) sand and reseal the whole thing.

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I_Bin_Painting t1_j9jtalk wrote

Id lightly sand the whole thing till it looks uniform then reapply a finish to the whole thing. Id use liberon worktop oil

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Pinkysrage t1_j9jvrm5 wrote

This makes me happy that I didn’t get the IKEA countertops. I went with real butcher block and I’m able to sand and stain the crap out of it for less than the ikea countertops

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painter36 t1_j9klmpa wrote

What others said about not sanding veneer. Cabinets to go, hd and lowes have solid wood counter tops (and our habitat for humanity restores often have them if you have one of those). Ikea laminate counters and cabinets are pretty great for the price, the hollow wood stuff not so much, be it furniture, shelves, etc.

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spaceraverdk t1_j9ldfmj wrote

I have a complete apprehension to any IKEA product that involves wood.

You know those thick tables and shelves, table legs etc? 3mm hardboard with a hexagonal cardboard filling.

All the tables, shelves etc are in one way or form that material. Supposedly to make it greener, yet it is the exact opposite of green. The only use is to burn it when discarded.

It's useless to recycle, and we have a hard time dealing with those products which end up in the wood piles that we do recycle here, load it on trucks to turn into particle board. That's at least worth a few cycles of reuse.

IMHO, remove the countertop, buy a solid piece of wood in lieu of.

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RedditSkippy t1_j9jrotl wrote

Wood VENEER countertop?? I guess it’s not much different than the Formica we used to have, but we always had to be very careful with the surface.

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1bighack t1_j9ie25b wrote

I would guess is glue

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[deleted] t1_j9jupax wrote

[deleted]

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Few_Ad_5677 t1_j9k0p8e wrote

Lol read the article — it’s a concern as an occupational hazard, not sanding oak veneer one time

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stealthybutthole t1_j9kkko2 wrote

people still think if they're exposed to asbestos once they are as good as dead. you won't change their minds. lol

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Few_Ad_5677 t1_j9leddl wrote

Haha you make a great point, not to bother.

People also seem to think this stuff is radioactive and will kill you at a distance. Wear a mask, and don’t cut up any lines of oak sawdust or asbestos and snort it, and if you do it this work for a living, be exceedingly cautious.

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Guilty-Ham t1_j9iqn27 wrote

Hey OP, you did the biggest abortion of a remodel. The other seam of the counter is equally horrid. Plus, who installs the faucet right at the trim of a window where the pipes will freeze in a cold snap.

Also, I doubt the sink drain has proper venting, which would be an island vent system.

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stealthybutthole t1_j9kl9lb wrote

why would an island vent be proper here? it's on an exterior wall and it's an old house, it probably has an actual vent.

also based on the fixture i'm guessing that's been there. not exactly something you can go down to home depot and purchase in 2023.

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Guilty-Ham t1_j9m3hzg wrote

It needs an island vent. It offsets under the window and by code you cant offset below flood level rim of the fixture. To vent without the offset would require it to rise straight up which it can't...obviously.

You don't purchase an island vent, you have to oversize the drain and loop the vent from the sink apex back into the oversize pipe, in this case, it should be a 3" drain. here is an illustration https://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fterrylove.com%2Fimages%2Fisland_vent_1b.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fterrylove.com%2Fforums%2Findex.php%3Fthreads%2Fisland-sink-venting.43049%2F&tbnid=H1dkqasDSFGZrM&vet=12ahUKEwipjuPqoar9AhURh-4BHeknA4gQMygBegUIARDLAw..i&docid=8ppTsAUDa6_OhM&w=512&h=459&q=island%20vent&client=firefox-b-1-d&ved=2ahUKEwipjuPqoar9AhURh-4BHeknA4gQMygBegUIARDLAw

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stealthybutthole t1_j9m5hcc wrote

I know what an island vent is. I’m saying he didn’t install the faucet. It’s not a reno, he just redid the countertops.

As far as the vent goes, we have no idea what the plumbing actually looks like. So speculating is pointless.

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[deleted] t1_j9jucz7 wrote

[deleted]

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Guilty-Ham t1_j9jut5n wrote

Oh Boy.... You don't understand pipes are in a freeze wall?

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[deleted] t1_j9jwtme wrote

[deleted]

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Sleete t1_j9k3gie wrote

I think he's talking about how the faucet is actually attached to the wall, meaning the plumbing is in the exterior wall. Usually the faucets come out of the countertop and the plumbing is in the cabinet below the sink.

As for if this is realistically an issue in a colder climate? idk. In Minnesota I've never seen a set up like this.

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