How do you know when to replace or fix a shed?

Submitted by crabapplesteam t3_11dnyzj in DIY

My parents have a shed on their property that has seen better days. The roof seems intact (no leaks), but clearly some animals have gotten into the door. Also, I have no idea how easy (or not?) it is to fix the bottom discoloration. Do I just need to repaint it and replace the doors? I've never done a project like this before, so any advice would be welcome.

In general though - how do you know when to replace a shed vs repair what's already there? Thanks!

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ObligatoryOption t1_ja9sc1r wrote

Like the Ship of Theseus, you can repair a shed forever: remove the rotten part, put in replacement part. You know it's time to replace it when you see that it needs repair but you're sick of patching it up, or you just want a serious quality improvement and have saved the money you need to get it.

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Adam2013 t1_ja9u2ec wrote

This. And clean that roof, otherwise it won't be fine for long!

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crabapplesteam OP t1_ja9v5ou wrote

haha - yep. that's the plan. gonna get started next time I visit.

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HemHaw t1_jaa58dj wrote

Do not use a pressure washer on the roof.

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crabapplesteam OP t1_jaa95ly wrote

Oh interesting - why not?

I was thinking of putting some kind of coating over the roof tiles, based off of what some other folks had said - and part of that process is pressure washing. I'd love to hear your opinion on what other options I have.

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Deadpressed t1_jaacltp wrote

It'll rip the granules off the shingle. Certainly possible to clean, just don't pressure wash.

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scarabic t1_jabhi3q wrote

People think pressure washers are literally magic and will quickly and easily strip away only what they consider to be dirt while having zero impact on the wood or other material underneath.

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GarrettR33 t1_jabkir4 wrote

See: me pressure-washing my cement patio with a rented high PSI gas machine and thinking “I should do the sides of the planter box while I have this” and pretty much annihilating the thing.

Been looking at buying a low budget Ryobi 1800 PSI electric unit just for getting lichen off the fence and other light duty stuff when the winter’s over, do you figure that’s probably safe?

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vee_lan_cleef t1_jadiu0r wrote

It will be fine, the key with pressure washing is to keep the nozzle as far away from the surface as you can, although with an 1800 PSI pressure washer you will have a hard time damaging wood unless you put the nozzle right on the surface, or use the narrow angle jet-type nozzle which don't have much for anything except extremely durable materials like steel. If you have never used a pressure washer I would recommend testing out the various nozzles and distances on a piece of scrap wood so you can get a good idea of how easily it might damage something.

Honestly, I live in the northeast where it gets extremely humid and I've been pressure washing yearly for two decades, I can't say I've ever permanently damaged anything, but you obviously want to be careful with anything that's painted (although a proper exterior paint, applied correctly, should be able to be pressure washed without stripping it) or finer decorative materials.

Also, my personal suggestion for an electric pressure washer having been through many crappy ones is anything by AR Blue, inexpensive but the parts that matter are good. The one I have now ended up running for multiple hours overnight while dry (a lesson to never leave them plugged in...) and it was so hot I thought for sure the pump would have failed, and was surprised the thing didn't short circuit or catch fire, but it's been years and I am still using it with no problems.

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vee_lan_cleef t1_jadh32e wrote

I have a pool shed in the northeast that gets heavy moss growth under trees, I pressure wash it yearly and it does not damage the shingles. The trick is to use a lower pressure electric one with a wide angle nozzle at a reasonable 8-12" distance from the surface. Also, you obviously need to direct the spray downwards towards the edge of the roof.

If you go using the high-pressure nozzle on a gas 3200 PSI pressure washer, then yeah you're going to fuck your shingles up.

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exiestjw t1_jaakxww wrote

If you're planning on keeping the shingles you have to be very gentle with them. Even just cleaning off the shingles, its going to mess them up. Its just that they'll be messed up more, faster, by leaving the organic material up there.

Anything you try to do besides gently cleaning them off in an attempt to make them last longer will just make them last that much less because it will disturb them too much.

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CyBerImPlaNt t1_jadxmru wrote

Check to see if they are structural pine needles before moving 😁.

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EngineerBill t1_jab7zk3 wrote

> Like the Ship of Theseus, you can repair a shed forever: remove the rotten part, put in replacement part.

I have this very, very old hammer amongst the tools in my workshop. I liked to explain to my kids that "this was my grandfather's hammer - my father replaced the handle, and I replaced the head, but it's still my grandfather's hammer. Someday, you will carry on the tradition!"

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vir-morosus t1_jabh52z wrote

There's two signs that a shed needs replacing, rather than fixing - the footings have rotted out, and/or the ridge board is rotted. Either one pretty much means you need to tear down large portions of the shed to fix. Easier to just replace.

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crabapplesteam OP t1_jabibcl wrote

That's a really really helpful tip. Thanks for commenting.

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kolitics t1_jab8c7a wrote

When you need to recall the ship of theseus, it’s probably time for a new shed.

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Sid15666 t1_ja9vq7g wrote

I had left over metal roofing from the house so I sided the shed with it. Not perfect but it’s a shed.

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Combatical t1_jadbukd wrote

My shed has old doors for the floor. I love this analogy.

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pessimistoptimist t1_ja9u1wb wrote

If the foundation, frame and roof are in good shape I would pressure wash the rot and algea off the bottom. Give a really good coat of sealant/paint and then put tin around the bottom 12inches to discourage rodents and trash pandas from getting in. Paint the whole thing, clean off pine needles of the roof and seal/paint the shingles to give it a longer life. A new door is essential as well... i would go with a proper steel clad exterior door. Would take some work but much less than replacing the whole shed. If done right you dont have to worry about major repairs for several years. ,

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crabapplesteam OP t1_ja9u884 wrote

Right on. Thank you so much for that - i was feeling a bit lost of how to approach this, and this gives me the perfect starting point.

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aseedandco t1_jaaapyz wrote

Clean the roof before you paint though.

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crabapplesteam OP t1_jaakgoq wrote

Will do - that's the very first thing I'll do! Any tips? I was was thinking of pressure washing it until someone on here said not to. Based on that, I think my plan is to just use a broom..

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aornoe785 t1_jaav5b4 wrote

Are they pine needles? If they're the long ones, honestly the fastest way to clear them is by hand, they bunch together and hold in big clumps. Just wear thick work gloves so you aren't endlessly stabbed. Raking or sweeping will just pile them higher and tighter.

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No_Veterinarian703 t1_jac5osa wrote

You can use a leaf blower or broom for the base layer, then soapy water and a bucket with a sponge/brush to get what is caked on.

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Remo_253 t1_jabe1c7 wrote

> pressure wash the rot and algea off the bottom

Be careful with the pressure washer, you can tear up the wood using too much pressure. There are different tips, use one that puts out a lower pressure.

Painters pressure washed my GFs house before painting and the guy that did it had no idea what he was doing, dug gouges in the siding on one side of the house.

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crabapplesteam OP t1_jabene6 wrote

Yea good call. Someone else suggested using a sponge with mildew remover, and I think that's the path I'll test first.

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megavolt121 t1_jacjgmb wrote

Spray hydrogen peroxide on the surface to kill everything.

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20_Menthol_Cigarette t1_jaaq1ny wrote

One thing I will add here. If you are going for a steel exterior door, dont just tin the bottom 12 inches, you dont want short tin or cut tin. I would just steel panel the whole exterior, it honestly would not take terribly much longer than just doing the bottom little bit. If your interior framing is correctly spaced and you know your layout you can stack your sheets and measure out and drill perfect pilot holes for all the fastening screws so it goes up super fast and looks perfect when complete.

When the shingles finally go bad, then lay a sheet metal roof over the shingle and then you have mecha shed.

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scarabic t1_jabhrap wrote

Just don’t pressure wash. Use a scrub brush and appropriate herbicide/fungicide. Pressure washers will tear right into old wood. A lot of decks have been ruined this way. It looks like they’re cleaning AMAZINGLY while you’re pressure washing, but that’s because it’s blasting layers away right down to bare wood.

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Zone_07 t1_jaakq74 wrote

Really easy to fix and a lot cheaper than getting a new one.

  1. To remove the green mildew you can use 1 part bleach to 3 parts water and gently scrub it with a sponge. Then rinse with a hose. There are also mildew removing kits on the market that you just attach to a hose and spray it on. Leave it for about 30 minutes and rinse.

  2. Do replace the doors and replace some of the corner planks that appear to be warping or broken.

  3. Simply brush off the roof and spray it with the mildew remover as well if you have to.

  4. Paint the whole deck and doors with exterior paint.

  5. Add a skirt around the bottom of the shed to a height of about 16in to 20in. There are multiple options. Some folks use horizontal vinyl siding, pressure treated lumber boards (deck), those vinyl lattice fences, bricks, faux stone.... Here's a link I found while listing the options: https://diyshedsandplans.com/shed-skirting-ideas/ Best of Luck!

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crabapplesteam OP t1_jaas267 wrote

Thanks so much for writing that out - very very helpful! I spent the past 20 min looking into mildew removers.. haha.

And thanks for that shed skirt website - that's very helpful as well. Gave me a few good ideas of what I can put there.

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oldcrustybutz t1_jab0ly6 wrote

I think the big question isn't answerable from the picture and that's whether the frame and foundation is still good. OP when you get there take your pocketknife or a screwdriver and go around the inside of the base of the shed and kind of poke at things every few inches. If it's solid then that's good.. if you can poke into it easily that's bad. If it's just soft in a couple of places you can often fix that by bracing up that side and cutting out the rotten bits and sliding in new pressure treated. OTOH if it's rotten all around most of the base it starts getting a lot easier to just tear down and rebuild. You can also do the same poke-for-rot around the accessible bits of the outside.

There is a similar concern if the roof has been leaking that some of the roofing timber or sheathing might be rotten but that lands more firmly in the fix territory IMHO.

If I had to bed.. I'd bet on fix in this case. Although there's some clear rot on the threshold which makes me wonder a bit. And I'm mildly concerned about the sill plate on the uphill side where all the trash is.

It looks like there's a concrete foundation. You might do well to pull back some of the trash (those pipes and shit are collecting leaves and holding moisture there) and maybe a touch of the dirt from the uphill side of the shed to make sure water is draining around it and not into it. You basically want to make sure the bottom of the wood is not touching anything except the concrete. No leaves, no dirt, no trash.. and there's a couple inches of drainage below the wood as well.

I don't think I'd get overly fancy with the door, it's been patched at least twice.. pull that off and put some 1/2" treated plywood on it and good to go. That's assuming it's not in worse shape than I can tell which.. is about 50/50 odds from here hah. If you do need a new door if there's a local rebuildit or habitat for humanity or similar store around you that's a good place to get them for not to much.

Be somewhat careful with the tin overlay someone was suggesting. The idea with outside covering is you want the water to always have drip out. So you basically want all layers to look like

inside \\\\ outside

so they drain to the outside and there's no place to trap water. Simply slapping a sheet of tin around the bottom is a place to trap moisture behind and will likely cause the wood behind it to rot faster. If you cut the siding back and slid the tin up under it that could work.. but I doubt it's worth the effort.

If any of those limbs look like they can smack the roof/side of the shed in a breeze trim them back so they can't.

Use a push broom to gently pull the needles back off of the roof. If the roof it leaking but not to badly you can patch it with some roofing tar. If the decking (plywood under the shingles) is rotted out you'd have to replace the roof. If the rafters are rotten you can cut new ones to match and "sister" them alongside the existing when the roof decking is off. Putting on a new rood isn't terribly hard.. but would take a newbie soloing probably a couple days just to figure it all out.

You might have to replace some/part/all of the door frame. Looks like it's probably just 1x4's. If so you'll see how they're nailed on when you pull them off.. do the same. Back prime and paint the wall and the back sides of the replacement boards before you put the new ones up. If they ain't rotten don't replace them.. but they look kinda rotten.. You can also use some 1x4's or 1x3's to replace trim the corners that should cover that gap in the upper left side as well :) They're basically just nail one flush to the building corner and then nail the other one to it overlapping and also to the wall. Pay attention to how the ones are on there now and you'll figure it out.

You'll minimally want a hand saw, a claw hammer, a cats paw tool, a flat pry bar, a framing square (speed square is nice but not strictly necessary but for $10 extra...), a level, some 10 penny galvanized nails, and some 2" galvanized box might be useful for the edges of the trim, if you get into the door you'll also need a screw driver for the hinges (drill/driver would be my recommendation) and some shims for resetting the door frame. If you have to do the roof add a circular saw for cutting the plywood roof decking to size, a chalk line for marking the plywood and the roof tile lines, a roofing stapler for laying the felt, some roofing nails, enough felt to cover, drip edge, replacement wood where needed, box of roofing nails, probably 2 maybe 2.5-3 squares of shingles and a stack each of starter and ridge shingles.

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crabapplesteam OP t1_jabt4ba wrote

Hey - I cannot thank you enough for the amazingly detailed reply. It took me a bit to google a bunch of stuff in there, but I have a much better understanding of the job ahead of me now. The big thing I didn't even consider until now is drainage, and hopefully that will be more clear once I get some of the trash and leaves out of the way.

Just two quick questions if you don't mind - You say "Back prime and paint the wall" - what exactly do you mean by 'Back prime"? I couldn't figure it out, even with google. Just prime and paint both sides of boards before putting them up?

Also you said, "You basically want to make sure the bottom of the wood is not touching anything except the concrete.... and there's a couple inches of drainage below the wood as well." - What exactly am I looking for with the drainage, and what do you mean by 'below the wood'? Just make sure there's a channel around the concrete? I'll check the sill plates are in good condition and are only touching the concrete for sure, but i'm not sure what else to look for.

Thanks again. Truly.

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oldcrustybutz t1_jadpgpb wrote

> Back prime and paint the

Back prime is a very short way to say "prime and pain the back side of anything you put up", I was specifically talking about priming and painting the back side trim itself in that case. You would also generally want to put at least one coat of paint on the front after installation to cover up the installation marks. I'd usually prime the whole wall and the front & back of the trim, give just the corner of the building and the backside/edges/end of the trim a coat of paint then re-prime the front of the trim after installation then paint over the whole thing. This is possibly overkill but it gets all of the surfaces nicely coated and is something resembling best practices.

For drainage and moisture prevention on the base you basically have two problems you're trying to solve.

First is to ensure that running water from like rain and snow melt will drain around the building and not into the building. So if the dirt up slope has slumped in along the foundation you'd want to dig it back a smidge and ideally grade it out to an even slope so it's less likely to slide in quickly. If it's loose dirt it's also probably a good idea to put something like some landscape fabric and bark chips or sod down to keep initial erosion from happening. This also means you should eyeball the overall drainage on the upslope side to ensure that there aren't any dams that water can get trapped behind. If the dirt isn't built up to where it'll block drainage and is stable then generally try to avoid disturbing it to much as that will likely increase future erosion (so it's kind of a trade off.. if there's a problem.. fix it.. but if there isn't then don't.. heh). Naturally compacted soil is usually fairly stable (moreso than most homeowner "compacted" anyway).

The second problem is vegetation and debris that can built up on top of the soil. This can/will wick moisture up and hold it in contact with the building and prevent it from drying out which will cause rot. This is often a problem around buildings where folks don't dig the down the dirt enough

One thing to remember about moisture is that it needs to be able to move. Ideally it moves to the outside of and away from the building. If you look at "good" (from an engineering perspective aesthetics are a separate problem heh) construction you'll start seeing this in all phases of the design from site prep to building shell design to window install to how exterior trim is designed and applied.

If you want some really interesting (interesting is I suppose relative.. heh) reading on building design https://buildingscience.com/ has a bunch of really fascinating articles and papers on building design and how they can go well or wrong. You can search for basic concepts there with google like "site:buildingscience.com back prime trim" (minus the quotes obvs).

Example relevant to the trim question: https://buildingscience.com/documents/building-science-insights-newsletters/bsi-015-stress-relief

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Mildly_Angry_Biscuit t1_jaax1px wrote

My cutoff is if any of the structural wood is wiped out (i.e., rotted, termite infested). Most everything else is generally easily replaceable. It looks like T1-11 siding, which is easy stuff to knock out and replace if chewed up, and its not terribly expensive. Replacing the doors - heck, just use a few pieces of that T1-11 and make doors out of it. The shingles look to be close to the end of their life - You could replace those (and replace any sheathing underneath) without much effort), then go either with shingles, a metal/plastic roof, or even roll roofing (although that doesn't necessarily looks terribly attractive, it'll work). Either way, this looks like a great project shed. If it were me - if that giant evergreen wasn't hugged up next to it, I'd be dreaming of putting solar on it, getting some batteries, and putting power to it!

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crabapplesteam OP t1_jabhy5f wrote

That's mind-blowing you could spot T1-11 siding like that - holy crap. Thanks for all the comments - I'll certainly do some more research and document the project so i can post it on this sub. I love that solar idea - despite the tree it actually does get quite a bit of natural sunlight, so it might be worth looking into. Thanks again for the great ideas!

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ffire522 t1_jab9z41 wrote

Looks to me like it should be raised off the ground. You can see where it looks like the wood is drawing moisture up from the ground.

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strum t1_jabz6yt wrote

It's got a lot of character, as it is.

Most important part is the roof; if it's sound, the rest is just patching.

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New_Engine_7237 t1_ja9z2o5 wrote

That looks worse than my sons shed. His is rotting where it sits on the concrete pad. Tuff shed brand has an aluminum footing about 6 inches high that may minimize this.

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deathplaybanjo t1_jaap5a4 wrote

My shed's wooden floor structure was falling apart (likely termites), a tree fell on it and damaged the roof, door was falling apart, carpenter ants in the rafters, and water damage destroyed the window sill and frame. It was time to go.

I ripped it down and saved a bunch of 2x4s from the walls.

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Duckbilling t1_jaaze5p wrote

 "You have shown me a life I could only dream about back home while masturbating in my father's woodshed."

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AgrajagTheProlonged t1_jab1wal wrote

In our case, it's when the bank says that for them to approve our mortgage application we either have to fix or get rid of the shed on the property we were buying and it was going to cost 3x the cost of removing it to fix it up

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jimacarroll1701 t1_jab7102 wrote

It’s time to scrap the shed when it’s so decrepit that rats will no longer live in it.

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TootBreaker t1_jabt8dh wrote

You know it's 'time' for the ol' shed to go when you find the entire fire department standing around it debating which is the best way to set it on fire

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GraphicsbyAndre t1_jadgie0 wrote

I have replaced the discoloration you speak of on a job before & the doors just a few months ago. Basically we will use a motorized saw at a horizontal angle and cut about an inch above the rot line all across to remove all of that. Of course make sure the interior allows this & does not have flammable fluids stored against the wall inside or wiring where you cut. (Gasoline Cans or Bug Sprays etc) as a power tool will surely ignite this. Then we just cut and place new wood. I would also consider staining the entire structure with water sealant stain and perhaps even siding it with vinyl if you want to make it last considerably longer without having to make patchwork fixes very often or ever again.

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Urban_Archeologist t1_jadj8p7 wrote

A new shed of comparable or lasting value could cost from 3-5k more or less. Create a budget with or without your parents money and estimate what you can scrape together. You can settle for a cheap one (the kind that sits out on the Homer or Lowe’s lot) or rebuild just remember to put a $/hr on your time.

Alt: is the shed needed? Homeowners policies in some states require coverage for a shed. If it isn’t needed you could renegotiate their homeowners policy without one.

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david72781 t1_jadpoxo wrote

I renovated a shed last year by taking a skil saw and cutting the bottom 3 feet of exterior panels off. Then, I ran a 1x2 transition strip and Hardy sighting from the transition to the base. Also replaced the plywood on the doors, caulked and painted. Everything came out great, and the shed should be good for quite a while longer.

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SirThatsCuba t1_jae0zj6 wrote

You replace a shed when you can't justify building an addition to it. Also, this thread is giving me great reminiscing about doing carpentry with my dad in the yard.

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