garlicroastedpotato t1_je14xdn wrote on March 28, 2023 at 5:38 PM

I look forward to all the expect opinions claiming hydrogen isn't a viable fuel source and we shouldn't be wasting our time with it.... as if their personal money was going into these non-government funded projects.

Weareallgoo t1_je3wpvs wrote on March 29, 2023 at 6:01 AM

I agree with you that the Reddit collective seemingly likes to hate the development of hydrogen technologies as though it somehow involves a conspiracy by the oil industry to continue burning fossil fuel. If it turns out that the technology is not competitive, economic, or environmentally friendly, it will eventually fail. But why hate the science and R&D if it’s in pursuit of bettering humanity?

Your second point about government funding isn’t quite correct however. The Spanish Centre for Technological Development and Innovation, CDTI, is a government agency that is providing 12 million Euro in R&D money.

SweetBiscuit t1_je4pdjd wrote on March 29, 2023 at 12:13 PM

>as though it somehow involves a conspiracy by the oil industry

Fossil fuel companies with the pre-existing infrastructure, workforce, and expertise in exporting bulk liquids are interested in the potential of green hydrogen? Must be a conspiracy!!!

DonQuixBalls t1_je87gds wrote on March 30, 2023 at 2:52 AM

> hydrogen technologies as though it somehow involves a conspiracy by the oil industry to continue burning fossil fuel

It's not a conspiracy. It's their actual business plan conducted out in the open.

DonQuixBalls t1_je331b4 wrote on March 29, 2023 at 1:28 AM

> hydrogen isn't a viable fuel source

It's not a source of fuel. It's a method of storing energy. Hydrogen isn't so much mined as it is produced from natural gas (reformation) or water (electrolysis).

garlicroastedpotato t1_je3bbe8 wrote on March 29, 2023 at 2:32 AM

That's an incredibly mundane distinction. Most things we call energy are just storing energy. Gas isn't energy until we get combustion.

DonQuixBalls t1_je3do9x wrote on March 29, 2023 at 2:51 AM

It's a monumental distinction. Petroleum is energy that was created 66-250 million years ago. 100% of commercial hydrogen was created in your lifetime, but about as likely within the last year.

If you generate electricity and transmit it for use in a car battery, you end up with at least 70-80% of it going to the wheel. With hydrogen, that same electricity results in only 25-30% making it to the wheel.

The only thing that makes that 25-30% improve is by scrapping electrolysis (the only green hydrogen available) in favor of reformed natural gas, which is just fossil fuel with extra steps and less efficiency.

So the alternative to battery electric powertrains is building 3x as many power plants to use hydrogen, or using more fossil fuel. Neither of those are the solution we're looking for.

garlicroastedpotato t1_je3gn8z wrote on March 29, 2023 at 3:16 AM

But oil isn't energy, the combustion creates the energy. Petroleum is just fuel.

And I called hydrogen fuel. Because that's what it is. Fuel is a method of storing chemical energy.

Most things we call energy are actually just storing energy. When we're talking about energy we're not talking about something as mundane solar power generation, turning turbines or internal combustion.