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Pleuel t1_jdchjtq wrote

Reply to comment by Enzo-chan in New 'biohybrid' implant will restore function in paralyzed limbs | "This interface could revolutionize the way we interact with technology." by chrisdh79

But instead only Elon got a buck every time he claimed to have "revolutionalized" sth. šŸ¤‘

Edit: Just went for an easy pun, didn't mean to trigger any evangelists. I am sorry for your emotions.

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Ishpersonguy t1_jde3jsm wrote

Oh man I knew this comment would bring out Elon's Reply Guys before I even finished reading it lol

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Artanthos t1_jdejcdy wrote

You mean like sparking revolutions in electronic payments, electric vehicle production, commercialization of space, and global internet access?

Heā€™s not the only player involved in any of these industries, but he was the first to achieve large scale commercial success in all of them.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcv57m wrote

I mean, he's kind of revolutionized or helped revolutionize everything from phone books, to paying for things, to electric vehicles, to home energy, to freaking space travel.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdcvy3s wrote

Well, he owned the work of the people who did at least.

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Artanthos t1_jdejfoc wrote

Work that would not have been done without him.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdelk85 wrote

Without his money maybe. He just happened to be attached to it.

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Artanthos t1_jdelukb wrote

You donā€™t get one without the other.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdeml3u wrote

Ditto water and giardia... unless you boil it. Turns out that both water and money not only can exist without parasites, but work better!

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mymemesnow t1_jddk83v wrote

But he is an engineer and have helped to design many things.

Heā€™s mostly just a businessman, but not solely. Thereā€™s lots of things to criticize him for, but he has done pretty incredible things counted together.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcwx74 wrote

If one guy spends $50 million on factory equipment to make shoes, then pays people to work in said factory, I'd say he definitely holds the lions share of responsibility for the shoes being made... When its a company doing something, yeah, the person funding and running the company is absolutely responsible for what it does.

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GothicSilencer t1_jdcxj7f wrote

The analogy falls apart a little with figures like Musk and Jobs, though. It's not just the factory, they hired inventors to invent stuff. Literally someone else's ideas making them rich. They just partnered other people's ideas with the means of production.

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Psychological_Ad_633 t1_jdcyxhg wrote

Do you have a source you can send? Not to discredit your points, but I've read it on reddit several times and never seen links. Would be interested in reading that because I loathe the dude.

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GothicSilencer t1_jdd0ae6 wrote

???

A source on how Steve Jobs marketed the works of Steve Wozniak? Pretty sure that's common knowledge.

Or how PayPal evolved out of an internet bank Elon WAS involved with, but they purchased the internet payment business developed by others, or how SpaceX' Falcon rockets only work thanks to Tom Mueller? Or is it more relevant that every Tesla model since 2008 has been designed by one man, whose name isn't Elon Musk?

Like, this is a well-trod road. It's not groundbreaking news to say Elon didn't design the things he's credited for making.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcy85i wrote

Not really. If you're the one providing both direction, infrastructure, and tremendous amounts of money to make something happen then you're largely responsible for it happening.

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orrk256 t1_jdefpc1 wrote

to put it as people did 100 years ago, if you own the means of production, aka the capital, you profit from the work of those who don't have capital, and the best part is when the people who have capital because they inherit it, they just accumulate more of it.

Damn, someone should write a book on this and help found some scientific movement to study this, we could call it "Capital" and make the study of the market economics!

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdeihfm wrote

Capital is just as important as labor is to a business running, and most people's labor is utterly useless by itself, and frequently not able to be done in the first place without the capital and infrastructure provided by the owner... You people all seem to have some silly notion that it's all about labor and labor is all that matters, when it just isn't.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdd5y4q wrote

> responsible for what it does

I have sad news about how corporations work. You better sit down...

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd686x wrote

Dealing with that is pretty much what I do for a living, so I think I'm fairly up to date on how corporations work.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdd8any wrote

You say that and then you say "the person funding and running the company is absolutely responsible for what it does". So you can see how I'm confused.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd8idp wrote

Because they are... This may be news to you, but a company without funding doesn't do anything, and a company without solid direction and leadership doesn't do anything for long.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdd9nzv wrote

I'm having a little fun here. I know you're talking about "responsible" in the sense that they get the profit. I'm saying "responsible" in the more typical sense of responsibility. Like being responsible if your train derailed and dumped poison everywhere. That's the joke. ;)

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ValyrianJedi t1_jddbhd4 wrote

They are though. Especially in situations like that... For anything environment related the corporate veil doesn't exist, and shareholders and executives can be held personally liable in both criminal and civil cases... Like, people routinely hold owners and executives responsible for what their companies do... When Tesla does something shitty everyone acts like Elon Musk is 110% behind it and responsible for it. But then when Tesla does something good they all act like he has no responsibility for the company's actions and results.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdddx76 wrote

Yeah, go cause a train wreck and then compare what happens to you to what ends up happening to the shareholders of Norfolk Southern. You'll lose more than your investments, let me tell ya!

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I-baLL t1_jdd4hjm wrote

How? He got fired from Paypal so he didn't revolutionize paying for stuff as much as he was trying to get in the way of it. How did he revolutionize phone books? He didn't do much for electric vehicles. Tesla has been doing well but to attribute that to him personally I is bizarre. And regarding space travel, sure he works on SpaceX and reusable rockets are a great idea but what did he personally contribute? The idea to use ipad-like touchscreens in an environment where physical controls will be better in an emergency? Or compromising the design of a rocket to make a reference to the movie "The Dictator"? It's becoming more and more apparent that Elon's companies have had successes in spite of him rather than because of him. It's even worse now since he's taken engineers away from his other companies and is making them work on Twitter instead.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd56by wrote

If you aren't aware of how funding and running a company makes you responsible what the company achieves I really don't know how to help you on that one... And acting like Tesla or SpaceX would have gotten where they are without him is a massive stretch. Acting like they did it in spite of him is just silly.

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DatSauceTho t1_jdcwsbf wrote

He revolutionized phone books? The thing that people stopped using like 15 years ago? Tf are you talking about?

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcxilg wrote

Almost like they stopped using it for a reason or something... Yeah, the guy created the first online city guide that functioned as an online phone book, wrote the software himself, and grew it into a $300m company before selling to Compaq in 1999. Zip2 was the company... Thats where he got the money to make x/paypal. Which is where he got the money to start tesla and SpaceX

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DatSauceTho t1_jdcyt4v wrote

A city guide is not a phone book. Nor is it the reason people stopped using them. But alright whatever.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdczccf wrote

It was literally marketed as a replacement for phone books and functioned as a phone book with more information and resources.

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DatSauceTho t1_jdczr5a wrote

Yeah alright. But donā€™t say he revolutionized this thing or that thing. He didnā€™t. He came from a wealthy family, made more money, and invested in other companies that made even more money. Stop acting like this dude Toby Stark or something. This is the same dude that somehow found a way to make twitter an even bigger dumpster fire. So thereā€™s that.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd0cw3 wrote

So now you're jumping to some entirely different argument to complain about. Kinda sounds like you just weren't aware that zip2 existed and are now scrambling to refuse to admit you were wrong... Also having a really tough time figuring out how you think "he came from a wealthy family" means that he isn't Tony Stark... Think thats my cue to stop responding to you.

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DatSauceTho t1_jdd2bh0 wrote

Youā€™re reading comprehension is clearly shit. My whole point from the beginning is that he hasnā€™t revolutionized anything. Thatā€™s why I called Zip2 into question. No, I donā€™t know wtf that is or I wouldnā€™t have asked. But hey, if you enjoy publicly sucking off wealthy tax dodgers who take away from public funds and programs, by all means. Just do us all a favor and take it to twitter where that bullshit belongs.

Iā€™m sure your idol will appreciate it.

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0reoSpeedwagon t1_jderv9s wrote

I mean, the fact that basically nobody remembers Zip2 in 2023 really speaks to just how revolutionary it was.

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GenocidalGenie t1_jdcxdyk wrote

Citation needed

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcxp1w wrote

For what? Zip2, X/PayPal, tesla, and SpaceX all have very readily available information on them

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GenocidalGenie t1_jddd0r2 wrote

He's certainly owned companies. Where's the revolution though?

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ValyrianJedi t1_jddhbfn wrote

Zip2 changed the way the businesses and customers found each other entirely. It was literally the replacement to the phone book, and first place where if you wanted to find a business you could just search categories in an online database and find numbers and addresses... PayPal impact was pretty obvious... Tesla breathed life into a virtually nonexistent EV market and has held like 3/3rds or more of the market share for over a decade. It's also at the forefront of both home and grid level energy storage... Then SpaceX literally privatized the space industry and changed the way that space vehicles made.

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DopamineDeprivation t1_jdcqtrq wrote

He gets paid for actually revolutionizing things. Look at his stock incentives for Tesla. He put his fortune on the line for SpaceX. If his endeavors didnā€™t work, he wouldnā€™t be rich.

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BookOfWords t1_jdcvv8l wrote

On projects paid for with public money, founded and developed by other, more talented people. They aren't 'his' endeavours, it isn't 'his' money and he doesn't dereve either to be acknowledged or rewarded to the extent that he has.

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CommunismDoesntWork t1_jddagpj wrote

Stop spreading the lie that Elon didn't found Tesla and SpaceX. First, SpaceX was soley founded by Elon and he's been the CEO and chief engineer since inception.

Tesla was Co founded by 5 people. Elon musk and JB straubel were independently going to start an EV company using tech from AC propulsion. AC propulsion then introduced them to Mark and Martain because they wanted to do the same thing, and the 4 decided to team up and musk provided the initial funding for Tesla. Tesla was nothing but a piece of paper when they teamed up. The courts decided all of them get to call themselves founders because there's no hard and fast rule of what counts as being a founder.

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Tschernoblyat t1_jddhrus wrote

No one gives a fuck who founded a company. That comment was about him basically being irrelevant to the inventions but still claiming them as his while sucking his own dick

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cyberFluke t1_jddu64b wrote

I'm sorry, can you say that again? I can't hear you properly with that dick in your mouth.

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CommunismDoesntWork t1_jddvzjp wrote

Stalin isn't going to suck your dick bro

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orrk256 t1_jdeduwc wrote

What does Stalin have to do with anything? also could you stop sucking Elon cock while you explain?

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CommunismDoesntWork t1_jdefd1g wrote

Can you stop sucking Marx cock for a second?

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orrk256 t1_jdeqs0c wrote

Look, I can't help that the field of economics was founded by the commies of Germany and France.

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[deleted] t1_jdcwkml wrote

[removed]

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justingod99 t1_jddqwox wrote

Iā€™m guessing ā€œDat Sauce Thoā€ has done much better with his life.

Because using your metric, if you came from a lower-middle class or higher family you should be a millionaire. Are you?

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DatSauceTho t1_jdfxwer wrote

Wtf are you even talking about? lol touch grass

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justingod99 t1_jdg7njz wrote

Iā€™m sorry you canā€™t understand my comment. After reading your ā€œwEAlthY FaMilYā€ comment, I tried to make my response as simple as possible.

How about thisā€¦Your dad gives you a sports car. Are you now automatically a nascar or F1 champion? Simple enough for ya bud?

Errrrrā€¦..I mean: ā€œElon sucks because heā€™s rich!!!! Upvote me!ā€

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DatSauceTho t1_jdgh6us wrote

It is a little hard to understand you with Elonā€™s dick in your mouth. My bad.

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justingod99 t1_jdh6btr wrote

Not sure what you mean. I donā€™t even like him.

Alas, unlike some people, my dislike for him doesnā€™t leave me oblivious to reality.

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DatSauceTho t1_jdiczex wrote

>Not sure what you mean. I donā€™t even like him.

Couldā€™ve fooled me.

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CommunismDoesntWork t1_jddayh4 wrote

Define wealthy? His dad was an engineer and mom a regular model (not super model). That's upper middle class at best. "But the emerald mine" his dad invested $40k of his life savings on a 50% stake in a mine and doubled his money over 10 years which barely beats the stock market.

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Isilmine t1_jddcxzd wrote

The problem I see with these Musk arguments on Reddit or elsewhere is that people involved choose to be very categorical. Truth, of course, is somewhere in between.

Is he a super genius visionary his disciples want us to think? No. But is he an absolute scum of the earth the other side insists? No, too.

He has his shortcomings, as we all do. But saying heā€™s the worst or being outraged by his actions is overreaction.

Even if he is a multimillionaires son, thatā€™s usually not enough to succeed in life and become a billionaire he is. Or else there would be hell of a lot more billionaires in the world.

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Zergzapper t1_jddo786 wrote

Well he kinda is scum of the earth, his sexual scandals show hes willing to use power to abuse other, his reaction when he didnt get to use his toys to save the kid trapped in cave was to call their ultimate rescuer a pedophile. He fired and made fun of someones disability on his biggest stage. He IS a shitty person period

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6_oh_n8 t1_jddsbik wrote

Being a multimillionaireā€™s son is enough to succeed in life unfortunately. The rich are the scum of the earth

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Isilmine t1_jdmrovp wrote

Well, being richness is relative. If rich are the scum of the earth, most Americans and Western Europeans can be safely called scum of the earth by Russians and Central Asians.

And by succeeding I mean multiplying inherited wealth. Turning millions into billions. Not as common as people think.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jde3bvt wrote

If your dad's money was the only reason for your success then you wouldn't have 3,000x more money than your dad

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Ishpersonguy t1_jde510v wrote

Spoken like someone who supports a system of which they have zero idea (and zero interest in learning anyway) how it actually functions.

You would have to be the biggest, most incompetent fucking buffoon to fail at that point, my guy.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jde6u3z wrote

I have bachelors degrees in econ and business, a masters in, finance and a decade long career in finance, so I'm going to go out on a limb and say I understand how the system functions a hell of a lot better than you do.

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orrk256 t1_jdeeho9 wrote

let me guess, you follow the Chicago school or it's derivations, because even the Kaynsians are adopting more and more "communist" ideas, because shocker, we have 50+ years to see this shit don't work as the neoliberal economists have said it would.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdei0rs wrote

Right. We have the highest GDP in the world, the 5th highest median income in the world (with all the countries avove us being a fraction of a fraction our size), the highest median disposable income in the world, are the business capital of the world, the finance capital of the world, and the tech capital of the world have half of the best schools in the world, have have half of the best hospitals in the world, but we totally haven't been doing good economically for the last 50+ years.

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orrk256 t1_jdeqjtj wrote

And yet you have people dead because they froze to death, children who would go hungry if not for free school lunches, a poverty rate of over 30%, people living in cars while working. The world's largest prison population.

And to clear up some misunderstandings you seem to have, America generally ends up somewhere in the middle of global education standards, American Hospitals have worse outcomes compared to almost every other first world country, be it child death, or op/post-op complication, let alone the massive amount of people who can't afford basic medical attention.

It's nice to see you list off the great achievements of the wealthy, but that doesn't affect you, now does it?

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ValyrianJedi t1_jder8io wrote

Oof... Don't know if you just get too much of your info from reddit comments or are living in some fantasy world, but there isn't any point trying to argue with someone who is that separated from reality so think that doozy is where I stop responding to you.

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justingod99 t1_jdetic4 wrote

Good idea, his main Reddit community is an Antifa community.

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justingod99 t1_jdeni39 wrote

Also biggest provider of worldwide aid and biggest military. These morons have no idea. (and I love the ā€œbut Finlandā€ argument lol)

Since everyone on Reddit hates America and refutes any evidence provided, maybe they could take a look at how Japan was doing before and after the US completely rebuilt them based ENTIRELY on our democracy. (Of note: We rebuilt them right after they surprised attacked us, murdering 2,400).

https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Inflation-adjusted-per-capita-GDP-in-Japan-1870-2015-Data-between-1870-and-1989-are_fig1_317063273

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Ishpersonguy t1_jdjc48q wrote

And lord knows that has always meant so much for actual qualifications. I wonder what degrees the congressman asking if TikTok "connects to the home wifi network" have?

I don't give a shit what degrees you have. You have a vested interest in benefiting from a system and zero interest in the people suffering from it. That makes you nobody.

Besides, we've all seen business majors, buddy. Nobody's impressed. Well, except y'all, evidently.

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justingod99 t1_jddrf31 wrote

No one gets as successful as he is without some merit. Itā€™s just a circle jerk of hate for him here. Just like anything republican or religious. I prefer balance, but people here just want a sounding board and absolutely go batshit crazy when someone disagrees or offers a different opinion. I got banned from TwoXChromosomes for disagreeing with a poster who said ā€œeveryā€ man has a rape fantasy. šŸ¤·šŸ»

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justingod99 t1_jde2vor wrote

Case in point. Downvoted for preferring a balanced, nonpartisan analysis.

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Enzo-chan t1_jdd2myu wrote

Idk Rick, I don't know if I can agree with this(the part of revolutionize), he did several good things and some of his products do work pretty well(and others don't like the Boring's Company Vegas Loop), but he didn't exactly "revolutionize" anything yet.

Take the car company for example, Tesla still uses lithium-ion batteries which is the norm for any EVs today, we don't see an exclusive formulae of new batteries for Tesla that can make the energy density 5x-10x bigger than conventional batteries.

FSD is still a worse driver than your average human driver, dunno if he'll manage to make it work perfectly before all the LiDARs, Radars + Cameras that are being put on other self-drivings approaches. If he pull that, then Tesla will have a revolutionary product, but I take Elon's claims with a heavy grain of salt.

Internet via satellites is cool, but still can't compare itself to the one provided by optic fibers, so not a game-changer.

Reusable rockets whistl a quite impressive feat, they're evolutionary at best, at least for now. Unless Starship manage to really make trips to LEO 100x cheaper, then in this case it'll be indeed an actual game changer.

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Jasrek t1_jdd87gf wrote

> Internet via satellites is cool, but still can't compare itself to the one provided by optic fibers, so not a game-changer.

As someone whose family lives in a rural area, it absolutely is. The difference between Starlink internet and the crap they used to get from Viasat and other satellite internet companies is like going from dial-up to fiberoptic.

Not to mention use cases like natural disasters (it was used effectively in areas suffering forest fires, where internet lines were down or didn't reach those areas), underdeveloped countries, underdeveloped areas in developed countries, etc.

Heck, being able to use Starlink while traversing the ocean would be a game-changer in and of itself for freight, military, and passenger ships.

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Organized_Riot t1_jddb3fs wrote

PayPal was pretty revolutionary. Also maybe Tesla didn't revolutionize electric cars but it definitely brought them into the mainstream, forcing other car companies to make more, newer electric models to compete. Also Tesla's open patent policy is pretty cool

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CommunismDoesntWork t1_jddbke7 wrote

>Tesla still uses lithium-ion batteries which is the norm for any EVs today,

And unheard of like 6 years ago. Are we just going to pretend auto companies would have switched to EVs the way they are now if Tesla hadn't come along and started to eat their lunch? That's a revolution.

SpaceX revolutionized space if you were already in the space industry. For average people, we won't see the ramifications until starship, agreed, but everyone in the space industry felt the revolution that was 2015 when SpaceX landed the falcon 9 for the first time

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Zergzapper t1_jddohwj wrote

I think theres an argument of pedantic happening here, people aren't saying those advancements arent good, they are saying they aren't being made by musk, the man has 19 patents with his name on it over his entire career. These ideas would happen without him

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