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Caracalla81 t1_jdcvy3s wrote

Reply to comment by ValyrianJedi in New 'biohybrid' implant will restore function in paralyzed limbs | "This interface could revolutionize the way we interact with technology." by chrisdh79

Well, he owned the work of the people who did at least.

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Artanthos t1_jdejfoc wrote

Work that would not have been done without him.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdelk85 wrote

Without his money maybe. He just happened to be attached to it.

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Artanthos t1_jdelukb wrote

You don’t get one without the other.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdeml3u wrote

Ditto water and giardia... unless you boil it. Turns out that both water and money not only can exist without parasites, but work better!

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mymemesnow t1_jddk83v wrote

But he is an engineer and have helped to design many things.

He’s mostly just a businessman, but not solely. There’s lots of things to criticize him for, but he has done pretty incredible things counted together.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcwx74 wrote

If one guy spends $50 million on factory equipment to make shoes, then pays people to work in said factory, I'd say he definitely holds the lions share of responsibility for the shoes being made... When its a company doing something, yeah, the person funding and running the company is absolutely responsible for what it does.

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GothicSilencer t1_jdcxj7f wrote

The analogy falls apart a little with figures like Musk and Jobs, though. It's not just the factory, they hired inventors to invent stuff. Literally someone else's ideas making them rich. They just partnered other people's ideas with the means of production.

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Psychological_Ad_633 t1_jdcyxhg wrote

Do you have a source you can send? Not to discredit your points, but I've read it on reddit several times and never seen links. Would be interested in reading that because I loathe the dude.

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GothicSilencer t1_jdd0ae6 wrote

???

A source on how Steve Jobs marketed the works of Steve Wozniak? Pretty sure that's common knowledge.

Or how PayPal evolved out of an internet bank Elon WAS involved with, but they purchased the internet payment business developed by others, or how SpaceX' Falcon rockets only work thanks to Tom Mueller? Or is it more relevant that every Tesla model since 2008 has been designed by one man, whose name isn't Elon Musk?

Like, this is a well-trod road. It's not groundbreaking news to say Elon didn't design the things he's credited for making.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdcy85i wrote

Not really. If you're the one providing both direction, infrastructure, and tremendous amounts of money to make something happen then you're largely responsible for it happening.

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orrk256 t1_jdefpc1 wrote

to put it as people did 100 years ago, if you own the means of production, aka the capital, you profit from the work of those who don't have capital, and the best part is when the people who have capital because they inherit it, they just accumulate more of it.

Damn, someone should write a book on this and help found some scientific movement to study this, we could call it "Capital" and make the study of the market economics!

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdeihfm wrote

Capital is just as important as labor is to a business running, and most people's labor is utterly useless by itself, and frequently not able to be done in the first place without the capital and infrastructure provided by the owner... You people all seem to have some silly notion that it's all about labor and labor is all that matters, when it just isn't.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdd5y4q wrote

> responsible for what it does

I have sad news about how corporations work. You better sit down...

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd686x wrote

Dealing with that is pretty much what I do for a living, so I think I'm fairly up to date on how corporations work.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdd8any wrote

You say that and then you say "the person funding and running the company is absolutely responsible for what it does". So you can see how I'm confused.

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ValyrianJedi t1_jdd8idp wrote

Because they are... This may be news to you, but a company without funding doesn't do anything, and a company without solid direction and leadership doesn't do anything for long.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdd9nzv wrote

I'm having a little fun here. I know you're talking about "responsible" in the sense that they get the profit. I'm saying "responsible" in the more typical sense of responsibility. Like being responsible if your train derailed and dumped poison everywhere. That's the joke. ;)

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ValyrianJedi t1_jddbhd4 wrote

They are though. Especially in situations like that... For anything environment related the corporate veil doesn't exist, and shareholders and executives can be held personally liable in both criminal and civil cases... Like, people routinely hold owners and executives responsible for what their companies do... When Tesla does something shitty everyone acts like Elon Musk is 110% behind it and responsible for it. But then when Tesla does something good they all act like he has no responsibility for the company's actions and results.

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Caracalla81 t1_jdddx76 wrote

Yeah, go cause a train wreck and then compare what happens to you to what ends up happening to the shareholders of Norfolk Southern. You'll lose more than your investments, let me tell ya!

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