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ooru t1_iqpsbxh wrote

I was fortunate enough to get to try out one of these machines (a Da Vinci Machine, specifically). They're absolutely amazing, and I'm not surprised that they're coming into broader use.

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imaginary_num6er t1_iqptgtg wrote

Didn't a clinical study show that robotic surgery without haptic feedback had worse outcomes than regular laparoscopic surgery?

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.7326/M20-7006

>A total of 50 studies with 4898 patients were included. Of the 39 studies that reported incidence of Clavien–Dindo complications, 4 (10%) showed fewer complications with robot-assisted surgery. The majority of studies showed no difference in intraoperative complications, conversion rates, and long-term outcomes. Overall, robot-assisted surgery had longer operative duration than laparoscopy, but no obvious difference was seen versus open surgery.

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ELONGATEDSNAIL t1_iqput1k wrote

It takes longer because setting up the robot takes time . It's also more complex so inheritly there will be more hang ups. It can move in ways our hands can' t so surgeons can do some neat stuff with it. There are some surgeries i would just get done lap and not robotic.

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jenkinsleroi t1_iqpzgro wrote

Is there any commercial system with haptic feedback? Part of the reason hospitals promote DaVinci is because of marketing and to keep up with the Joneses, rather than improved outcomes.

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TheHiveminder t1_iqqt8cu wrote

Yes, numerous. It's been a thing for about 15 years.

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TheTruv t1_iqrmbne wrote

Which ones?

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medmems t1_iqvp804 wrote

It’s been in knee surgery for a long time (mako robotic assisted system) and newer minimally invasive robots like CMR surgical’s are including haptic feedback.

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jenkinsleroi t1_iqs2qwo wrote

Less than ten years ago there was nothing but the DaVinci, and it still does not have haptics. Which systems do you know of?

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AndarianDequer t1_iqs5qhf wrote

You are correct, anybody that says otherwise is wrong. The DaVinci system does not currently have haptics and never has had haptics. No robotic platform does. The technology is there, I've seen it, I've tried it, but it's not ready for public use. The instruments are more costly when haptics is added in and surgeons aren't willing to pay the additional cost at this time. In the cost is a dramatically decreased, it will absolutely be a thing.

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TheHiveminder t1_iqs3qpz wrote

You are fundamentally incorrect, there were a dozen vendors by 2010.

Google is that way ---->

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Deere0001 t1_iqptj72 wrote

I had kidney surgery and they used the Da Vinci. Saved me from being cut in half

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mick_ward t1_iqq6sr2 wrote

Hernia patient here. Da Vinci was used. Now, everything that's supposed to be inside stays inside.

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damnedspot t1_iqr2jrd wrote

Same. I didn’t know what it was called, so when I got wheeled into the room, I said something like “Oh, you have a Mr. Handy!” Don’t remember much after that.

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WimbleWimble t1_iqrrgj0 wrote

"try out" as in grab someone and remove their appendix?

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ooru t1_iqt866s wrote

Ha, nothing so interesting. They can practice with tiny silicone rings of various sizes on a grid of tiny cones, and I got to try that. With the VR headset and controls, it felt pretty 1:1.

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