imaginary_num6er t1_iqptgtg wrote on October 2, 2022 at 5:42 AM

Reply to comment by ooru in "Robotic surgery is a game changer for minimally invasive surgery" - More and more surgeons are using robotic surgical systems. Here’s why. 🤖 by tonymmorley

Didn't a clinical study show that robotic surgery without haptic feedback had worse outcomes than regular laparoscopic surgery?

https://www.acpjournals.org/doi/pdf/10.7326/M20-7006

>A total of 50 studies with 4898 patients were included. Of the 39 studies that reported incidence of Clavien–Dindo complications, 4 (10%) showed fewer complications with robot-assisted surgery. The majority of studies showed no difference in intraoperative complications, conversion rates, and long-term outcomes. Overall, robot-assisted surgery had longer operative duration than laparoscopy, but no obvious difference was seen versus open surgery.

ELONGATEDSNAIL t1_iqput1k wrote on October 2, 2022 at 5:58 AM

It takes longer because setting up the robot takes time . It's also more complex so inheritly there will be more hang ups. It can move in ways our hands can' t so surgeons can do some neat stuff with it. There are some surgeries i would just get done lap and not robotic.

jenkinsleroi t1_iqpzgro wrote on October 2, 2022 at 6:56 AM

Is there any commercial system with haptic feedback? Part of the reason hospitals promote DaVinci is because of marketing and to keep up with the Joneses, rather than improved outcomes.

TheHiveminder t1_iqqt8cu wrote on October 2, 2022 at 12:58 PM

Yes, numerous. It's been a thing for about 15 years.

TheTruv t1_iqrmbne wrote on October 2, 2022 at 4:26 PM

Which ones?

medmems t1_iqvp804 wrote on October 3, 2022 at 1:23 PM

It’s been in knee surgery for a long time (mako robotic assisted system) and newer minimally invasive robots like CMR surgical’s are including haptic feedback.

jenkinsleroi t1_iqs2qwo wrote on October 2, 2022 at 6:08 PM

Less than ten years ago there was nothing but the DaVinci, and it still does not have haptics. Which systems do you know of?

AndarianDequer t1_iqs5qhf wrote on October 2, 2022 at 6:26 PM

You are correct, anybody that says otherwise is wrong. The DaVinci system does not currently have haptics and never has had haptics. No robotic platform does. The technology is there, I've seen it, I've tried it, but it's not ready for public use. The instruments are more costly when haptics is added in and surgeons aren't willing to pay the additional cost at this time. In the cost is a dramatically decreased, it will absolutely be a thing.

TheHiveminder t1_iqs3qpz wrote on October 2, 2022 at 6:14 PM

You are fundamentally incorrect, there were a dozen vendors by 2010.

Google is that way ---->