Submitted by BW6611 t3_y79oq2 in Futurology
With gas prices sky high, can hydrogen replace gas piped to homes? Are there any technical issues with hydrogen using existing gas pipes to homes?
Comments
oldnuthammer t1_iswtmlm wrote
They started using plastic for natural gas mains in the 60s, the biggest challenge would be in older residences...Code changes are required all the time and people change out appliances frequently.
People do not like the idea of burring gas for purely ideological reasons, there is nothing practical or logical behind the opposition to hydrogen energy.
thecoolerjordan t1_istanur wrote
Hydrogen is much smaller than natural gas. This makes it harder to control (it slips through more cracks, burns easier), less efficient (need ~3x volume compared to natural gas for same output), and it burns hotter meaning your appliances may not be able to tolerate the increased heat.
OlderNerd t1_istcp4u wrote
Actually, most of the commercial hydrogen available today is produced from fossil fuels. About half of it is produced from natural gas. So unless you're going to get your hydrogen by electrolysis from water, it's probably not going to be worth it
floating_crowbar t1_isvd2vr wrote
there are alternatives - Proton Technologies (Alberta based) already has an test operation in Saskatchewan to basically extract hydrogen from depleted oil fields by pumping in oxygen and taking out hydrogen while the c02 stays underground. Already it is cheaper than steam reforming. They estimate hundreds of years of hydrogen and way cheaper than electrolysis.
Another is Aurora a startup from U of T - which extracts hydrogen from natural gas by using microwave pyrolisis (heating up so the carbon precipitates as a solid) If the microwave heating is done with renewable that it would be a co2 free method to take advantage of vast reserves of natural gas and existing infrastructure.
aurizon t1_istepgy wrote
Hydrogen can be used for heating/cooking - the same stinky gas they add to natural gas works fine to alert people to gas leaks by people smelling the leak. The gas piping must be upgraded because hydrogen embrittles some alloys = they break. The gas jets and meters need to be changed. Some places used water gas, but it has been largely displaced by natural gas. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/water%20gas#:~:text=Definition%20of%20water%20gas,after%20carbureting%20as%20an%20illuminant
The truth is induction cook tops and heat pumps can heat/cook for about the same cost. All houses should be sealed to R2000 sealing and insulation standards and as we get rid of all gas types of heat and use electric we will be far better off.
sleekitweeman t1_isv5ili wrote
Just read somewhere that shell are quietly closing all their hydrogen refuelling sites.
griff_the_unholy t1_istci4p wrote
Technically yes, But the economic, technical and safety difficulties are absolutely prohibitive.
The first and most obvious problem is where do you get the hydrogen? The energy balance of electrolysis hydrogen is utterly terrible, and natural gas is better left as natural gas. And it just gets worse as you start to look at the other considerations.
So the true answer: its possible but you definitely dont want to. Unless you are a fossil fuel company trying to greenwash.
floating_crowbar t1_isvdgb3 wrote
Well the Japanese are investing a lot in hydrogen and storing it as liquid ammonia.
Another
is Aurora a startup from U of T - which extracts hydrogen from natural
gas by using microwave pyrolisis (heating up so the carbon precipitates
as a solid) If the microwave heating is done with renewable that it
would be a co2 free method to take advantage of vast reserves of natural
gas and existing infrastructure.
BW6611 OP t1_isv3gs0 wrote
Thank you all for your answers. I probably won't know how a hydrogen grilled steak will taste like lol.
floating_crowbar t1_isvdqsv wrote
They are already planning on blending it with natural gas.
floating_crowbar t1_isve723 wrote
Also there is Hydrogenious a method of storing hydrogen as a LOHC liquid
itismoepmel t1_ista32a wrote
It could but it’s cheaper and more efficient to use heat pumps. Maybe an indirect use of H2 through industrial installations which need it makes sense in some cases.
redingerforcongress t1_istdswr wrote
Not directly. You'd need to upgrade your appliances and pipes to support this.
SomeoneSomewhere1984 t1_istfns8 wrote
I doubt many current appliances could work with hydrogen, you'd have to replace every gas appliance in existance to change the gas lines to hydrogen.
beachyfeet t1_isu08ve wrote
Can it? Yes. Will it? Probably not
hellrail t1_isuiy2x wrote
There would be a lot more explosions happening blowing up the whole house
captain_pablo t1_isv7bdx wrote
For cooking, induction stove tops are taking over which avoids toxic gases and uses less power. Plain hydrogen is not a good choice because it makes metals brittle and very easily leaks. If something like that was really needed ammonia would be semi-practical but the writing is on the wall now and everything energy in homes of the future will be electricity/batteries, if only because the cost of solar is dropping so quickly.
iNstein t1_isx2a92 wrote
My understanding is that it is a terrible choice. Apart from its effects on various materials making them brittle, it is extremely hard to stop it leaking everywhere. This is because of the size of the hydrogen atom which means that it can get through the smallest of gaps. Going all electric is the way to go.
DrNobodii t1_isz7x74 wrote
Or you could replace components with electric ones? I mean a lot of modern electric appliances are more efficient
bluefish483 t1_isud1h2 wrote
Yes it can be but it may not be worth it do to how it’s produced these days.
BW6611 OP t1_ist8se9 wrote
If possible, it could even generate electricity using a fuel cell at home.
[deleted] t1_isw9pmq wrote
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Futuroptimist t1_ista50f wrote
Hydrogen is tricky gas: it can diffuse into steel making it brittle. In the past the ammonia plants blew up regularly because of this. Although with smaller pressure it shouldn’t be that big of a problem. Gas burners need to be modified or changed to be able to burn efficiently H2. AFAIK now the new gas stoves and heaters can burn a 10% H2 mix with regular gas. Making a fuel cell at home? Probably it wouldn’t be energy efficient compared to just transmitting electricity. But a fuel cell car would be more usable this way.