Submitted by alex20_202020 t3_yobd6l in Futurology
HardCounter t1_ivekakd wrote
Reply to comment by The_RealKeyserSoze in Dutch pilot project for hydrogen heated homes allowed to begin by alex20_202020
Heat pumps are generally not good in extreme temperatures either, unless i'm mistaken. If there's practically no warm air outside to draw from they're not going to get much. It's best in well above freezing temperatures. Probably shorts weather in Denmark.
The_RealKeyserSoze t1_ivesv2b wrote
They work just fine in cold environment and there was a recent paper in Nature that found heat pumps already outperform current methods of heating using existing electricity mix for 95% of the worlds demand. They are so efficient that they can outperform oil/gas when electric grids are still running on a majority oil/gas.
HardCounter t1_ivgtmlp wrote
I guess people saw the link and didn't bother to check it because it doesn't say that at all. This paper relates to direct emissions. It's behind a paywall and says only this in the abstract, portions of which are utter bullshit and relate only to emissions:
> The electrification of passenger road transport and household heating features prominently in current and planned policy frameworks to achieve greenhouse gas emissions reduction targets. However, since electricity generation involves using fossil fuels, it is not established where and when the replacement of fossil-fuel-based technologies by electric cars and heat pumps can effectively reduce overall emissions. Could electrification policies backfire by promoting their diffusion before electricity is decarbonized? Here we analyse current and future emissions trade-offs in 59 world regions with heterogeneous households, by combining forward-looking integrated assessment model simulations with bottom-up life-cycle assessments. We show that already under current carbon intensities of electricity generation, electric cars and heat pumps are less emission intensive than fossil-fuel-based alternatives in 53 world regions, representing 95% of the global transport and heating demand. Even if future end-use electrification is not matched by rapid power-sector decarbonization, it will probably reduce emissions in almost all world regions.
Let me highlight a part
> We show that already under current carbon intensities of electricity generation, electric cars and heat pumps are less emission intensive than fossil-fuel-based alternatives in 53 world regions, representing 95% of the global transport and heating demand.
The_RealKeyserSoze t1_ivh9spv wrote
Not sure which portions you think are “utter bullshit” but here is a link to the full text. If you have your own source you could provide it, but Nature is not known for publishing “utter bullshit”.
And carbon emissions was the metric I was using for the comparison, if I didn’t make that clear. In terms of carbon emissions heat pumps are lower emission than current sources of heating (mainly gas and oil) and that will only improve as electric grids gain higher proportions of clean energy.
[deleted] t1_ivhcprs wrote
[removed]
The_RealKeyserSoze t1_ivhdtp3 wrote
>”They do not work in freezing temperatures.”
They do work in freezing temperatures. In fact you have a heat pump working in your freezer right now. You seem to have just made up this false claim and are now claiming Nature is not a credible source ???
In order for heat pumps to beat current heating sources in terms of emissions they have to function and still be very efficient.
>”They didn't used to be, but what gets published in many journals lately is highly politicized. I'm certain they would not publish an equally valid study that says something different when accounting for more factors. It's a bit off topic but: everything is agenda driven in the world right now because that's where the money is and it's seriously affecting scientific honesty. If nobody gets published for a study discrediting a certain idea then nobody is going to do that study, and even if they did nobody would believe it and/or be aware of it because it wasn't published.”
Source? Sounds like you got lost on your way to r/conspiracy
Derkxxx t1_ivets4i wrote
Netherlands is not a country of extreme weather, it is very temperate. Mild summers, mild winters. Mostly just very wet and quite windy. Besides that, heat pumps generally have an option to heat additionally electrically or in a hybrid system with natural gas if more heat is needed. Great thing about heat pumps is that they can cool as well through ventilation.
HardCounter t1_ivgqzib wrote
> Besides that, heat pumps generally have an option to heat additionally electrically or in a hybrid system with natural gas if more heat is needed.
This portion is a heater, not a heat pump. The statement i'm responding to was about heat pumps, not heaters.
pichael288 t1_ivf4344 wrote
Sort of. But it doesn't have to be well above freezing, it just has to be above freezing. And even they they make ones with a heating element that will function in colder weather.
HardCounter t1_ivgu3y2 wrote
The energy loss in greater temperature differentials is very high. Sure, if it's 40 degrees outside and you set your thermostate to 43 you're going to get a good return, but you probably want it nearer to the 60s or 70s and that's where they get you.
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