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Alis451 t1_iwqj938 wrote

Reply to comment by whyamihereonreddit in Overhyping hydrogen as a fuel risks endangering net-zero goals by filosoful

What he means is that there isn't currently enough Green Hydrogen throughput for all vehicles to run on Hydrogen, not even enough if all current EVs were converted to Hydrogen. Most of the current hydrogen fuel is Blue Hydrogen.

>Which is currently just not possible, but maybe in the future.

The biggest problem I have with Hydrogen is that it is super difficult to actually store, it is a slippery little bastard, so it doesn't make the best energy storage medium.

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TjW0569 t1_iwqltod wrote

Works pretty good if you bind it with some carbon.

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CHRLZ_IIIM t1_iwqzlkl wrote

Hydrocarbons how come we never thought of that

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TjW0569 t1_iwr1lvm wrote

If only there were some process that scrubbed the atmosphere of CO2, combined it with hydrogen to make hydrocarbons, and released the oxygen as a gas.

Seems far-fetched, I know.

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Phssthp0kThePak t1_iwr9l2x wrote

This is good idea, but what about nitrogen? CO2 is too dilute in the atmosphere. We could use ammonia rather than methane.

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TjW0569 t1_iwrq4zi wrote

That sort of reduces to the problem of getting the hydrogen. And the higher energy density of nitrogen compounds is not always a benefit. See Texas City, 1947

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Phssthp0kThePak t1_iwrtsdd wrote

Hydrogen from water, or bio material. But, yeah, burning ammonia probably will lead to need for some heavy duty catalytic converters, I bet, to avoid smog from NOx. VW will be like, 'you thought we were bad. Wtf?'.

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Splenda t1_iwr1zyd wrote

A pity that we can no longer burn them.

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ComfortableFarmer t1_iwqn2ag wrote

A firm called Plasma Kinetics has been operating a long time. They worked out how to store 1H as a solid, and have stored it on disks. they are already involved with the automotive industry also.

I think we'll see a shift away from what everybody thinks about 1H storage.

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Alis451 t1_iwr1a5l wrote

> They worked out how to store 1H as a solid

MgH2, Magnesium Hydride was the last solid hydrogen storage medium that I saw they were working on. The problem is that it is solid, which makes it a terrible refueling storage medium, you need a liquid(like gasoline) or a gas that can be safely condensed(like propane), solids are difficult to extract the energy back out from, though not impossible, especially if they sublime under heat or are able to be activated while in a solution.

Palladium is also a fantastic Hydrogen storage device, with being able to store up to 900x its volume in hydrogen or something like that, palladium is already expensive for its unique properties and uses in catalytic converters.

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ihatereddit53 t1_iwrdcqd wrote

Why cant u take the hydrogen atoms out of water? Then all you need for fuel is... water... and whatever crazy machine that can grab the hydrogen

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_Bl4ze t1_iwru7bn wrote

Electrolysis. Not a very crazy machine, but also not very efficient though.

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Alis451 t1_iwry9vy wrote

> Then all you need for fuel is... water...

water is super heavy and not very hydrogen dense, much unlike hydrocarbons, you are now back to the too heavy thing you are trying to prevent. also adding an electrolysis device TO the vehicle won't exactly... work. especially when you are trying to harvest green energy, from you know... solar/wind/etc. power plants.

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ihatereddit53 t1_iwrz6cs wrote

I mean, is water heavier than gasoline? How would it be different? Are we just talking efficiency like the other person? Because if so then its not the tech itself but that the tech needs to advance enough to be viable in that situation - still a propaganda article from a person with an agenda.

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Alis451 t1_iws0fmv wrote

> I mean, is water heavier than gasoline?

very much

>Hydrogen is measured by the kilogram. 1 kilogram is 1 gallon of gasoline equivalent (gge).

>It takes 3 gallons of water to make 1 kg of hydrogen

Water is 3.79 kg per gallon
Gasoline is 2.567 kg per gallon

water x3 = 11.37 kg of water to equal an equivalent amount of hydrogen energy as 2.567 kg of gasoline

or nearly 5 times the fuel weight

Usual Capacity is ~12 gallons of gas, so ~30kg (x5 = 150kg and a 36 gallon tank to hold it) basically trucking around a whole extra fat person 120kg = ~250 lbs, again not accounting for the electrolysis equipment, and the base energy you need to actually perform said electrolysis while on a vehicle.. it starts adding up fast.

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ihatereddit53 t1_iws2hc2 wrote

Soooo efficiency? Like i said?

Edit: and listen i appreciate the math and for sure i think u know what youre talking about but really its not usually the case that things are impossible, just that the right scenario hasnt been thought of and the technology hasnt caught up to the idea

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