Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

jmurphy3141 t1_ixt75z9 wrote

Reply to comment by misterhamtastic in Covering a cylinder with a magnetic coil triples its energy output in nuclear fusion test by Gari_305

Why does it make you angry?

31

misterhamtastic t1_ixt84jz wrote

I guess because it's so mundane. We're manipulating materials at an atomic level and yet we're getting our electricity by steam engine.

And anger is probably the wrong word but you get what I'm saying. Vexed with the nonsense that is reality.

138

psycadelia t1_ixtgi49 wrote

There is a cool straight-to-electricity fusion startup called Helion. Basically, they use a coil to capture the change in magnetic field generated when a pulse of plasma undergoes fusion.

52

zenzukai t1_ixtke36 wrote

Helion's cycle is really cool. It's about as futuristic and surprisingly elegant as it gets. I really hope that one works out, like a reactor you'd find on a starship or something.

39

KrevanSerKay t1_ixtbgeg wrote

Thank you, I feel like not enough people talk about this. Wood, coal, oil, fission, fusion, antimatter annihilation. We keep making more and more dense/available sources of raw thermal energy generation over the course of the past 200 years.

Meanwhile, converting into electrical or mechanical energy is still just boiling water to turn a turbine. Somehow that's barely changed in hundreds of years.

Somehow we're still innovating on features for toaster ovens, but we never hear about major game changer technology for energy conversion

49

alstegma t1_ixu0y9f wrote

That's a bit like saying "There's been so much innovation on car motors, we apply advanced thermodynamics and computer simulations to improve them, but we're still just using it to rotate wheels".

Steam turbines are a fantastic way of turning heat into electricity. They are efficient (compared to the theoretical maximum Carnot efficiency), economical and perfectly practical in the context of large power plants.

33

Snufflepuffster t1_ixttm3q wrote

Steam is a great medium for energy conversion. You’re totally neglecting years of advancements in turbines and material science. Superheated steam has nice properties in terms of energy extraction.

31

smopecakes t1_ixwil18 wrote

Fusion plants are expected to use molten salts to transfer heat which sounds like it can allow up to 55% conversion efficiency (vs as low as 30% for light water fission)

Molten salts come with engineering headaches but it also makes fusion a more convenient source of process heat for industry. A study on the ARC design, that is looking to have its physics validated in 2026 by the SPARC machine, found it could produce CO2 free ammonia for shipping fuel at little more cost than current methods by using its electricity and heat

also, when it comes to finding fusion steam engines boring, sometimes I fear the wrath of Isaac Newton when someone brings him from the past to show him our literally alchemy powered fission and fusion plants producing electricity in quantities more valuable than the worldwide gold trade

2

mysticsurferbum t1_ixtfqv4 wrote

We have solar. And wind. And ocean wave turbines

23

AaronfromKY t1_ixtk1x5 wrote

Those are all well and good, but I think the guy meant it seems odd that fusion can't just generate electricity we could siphon off and use, versus making heat to boil water.

19

Bardez t1_ixtqdms wrote

Exactly. Like. There HAS to be a better way to generate electricity than to turn something.

14

coolwool t1_ixu3y96 wrote

Well, it's the easiest way, I guess. The energy that is created isn't electricity yet, so without transforming it, you can't use it in that way.
I find it more crazy that for some reason, we found this good way to do it so long ago.

8

GodEmperorBrian t1_ixuj39c wrote

You generate electricity by manipulating magnetic fields. The easiest way to do this by far is by spinning a magnet around a coil, or a coil around a magnet. Unless we discover something we didn’t already know about magnetic fields, we’re just going to keep spinning things.

6

samglit t1_ixu1eaf wrote

Only solar seems to be a major step forward in removing mechanical turbines.

6

Ugunsmuris t1_ixttjhu wrote

Hydrogen power cell might be an example of something diffrent. That is not just harvesting naturaly occuring energy.

5

CelltonCelsius t1_ixtqaby wrote

We have combined cycles and Rankine cycles with reheat, so there is ongoing innovation in the energy conversion field. Heat engines are also just limited to the Carnot efficiency. We hit finishing returns quite quickly.

Fuel cells, however can achieve higher efficiencies, but operate on a different principle.

6

Holgrin t1_ixugptb wrote

I understand people's excitement for crazy sci-fi shit, but like, we still have the wheel and it's fine. As they say, don't try to reinvent it. Circles really are mathematically incredible shapes. They're just visually pretty simple.

8

VikingBorealis t1_ixu43xl wrote

Yet steam engines are one of the most effective methods of gaining energy.

6

HotTopicRebel t1_ixus3uk wrote

We've got other materials we can use. But water has a lot going for it. It's relatively cheap, has an absolutely huge specific heat, isn't reactive/corrosive, and if there's a leak it's generally not going to spontaneously combust or poison everything, and it happens to have a fairly malleable phase-shift diagram.

Are there better materials for each of those above in isolation? Yes. But is there a better material on the whole? Not really.

4