Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

garry4321 t1_ixv6muk wrote

That would require a lot of computer resources to constantly keep the area rendered, and keep the AI computing and running in the background. There’s a reason villagers are simple and don’t do anything when you’re not around.


avalonian422 t1_ixvau0f wrote

Technology improves my boy


garry4321 t1_ixvbqyl wrote

And CPU’s have stagnated in power offer the last 10 years. Unless we get a breakthrough, there’s zero chance that the game is going to simulate AI villagers over an infinite map.


aliokatan t1_ixvfw8j wrote

gary let me tell you in the 8800GT days nobody could even dream of the word AI aside from terminator and here it is running on-device, mainstream


garry4321 t1_ixwfzk2 wrote

I’m saying near future. Also, there are infinite villages, so each village you find now has to be rendered and simulated constantly in addition to your actions. Picture each villager as now being a separate instance of Minecraft running on your PC.

Also, referencing historic gains in computing ignores the current factual reality that the exponential growth of CPU power has stalled for the last 10+ years and we are getting smaller and smaller returns on investment into CPU power.


aliokatan t1_ixwuuy1 wrote

AI efficiency and processing power has exploded in the last few years alone


Crivos t1_ixvgudp wrote

I saw something about graphene chips instead of silicone ones upping the charts.


garry4321 t1_ixwfpat wrote

Oh… well if you saw it, we must have the resources to simulate an infinite possible amount of AI villages in the next few years.


LastPlaceStar t1_ixwbrpk wrote

The fact that the map is infinite has absolutely zero relevance.


garry4321 t1_ixwfgav wrote

Infinite map means infinite villages means each new village you come across needs to be-maintained in processing and simulated in real-time. So yea, infinite map DOES matter. Each new village now needs to be simulated in addition to just simulating gameplay.


LastPlaceStar t1_ixwxkr8 wrote

The game doesn't process everything at the same time. That's what chunk loading is.


RedditFuelsMyDepress t1_ixx2yxj wrote

I guess the confusion is that how would they change the village based on AI behavior if that AI isn't always simulated on the background. Obviously they don't need to render it graphically when you're not there, but you'd expect the village to change when you leave and come back. Could they just quickly run the simulation or "predict" what changes would have occurred when the chunk is loaded in? I'm genuinely asking, because I don't know how this stuff usually works.


GOOD_BONE_N_CALCIUM t1_ixyjtlk wrote

Hell they could have the information processed into the seed how things will proceed once observed / loaded / reloaded vs in world time.


garry4321 t1_ixzrlyb wrote

Thats my point. If you want AI robots always building while you are not there, the game has to render those chunks and simulate the AI building. Perhaps not graphically, but still has to process it exactly the same as if you were there. Otherwise the game just has to fake it and slap in a pre-built castle as if the AI built it, but then thats not AI at all, thats just slapping down pre-builds.


Emu1981 t1_ixwsz31 wrote

>And CPU’s have stagnated in power offer the last 10 years.

You are joking right? 2012 saw the release of Intel's 3rd gen Core processors and AMD's Piledriver CPUs. The 13900k is around 250% faster than the i7-3770k in the single core Geekbench 5 and nearly 400% faster than the FX-8350 - in the multicore benchmark that lead increases to around 700% and 800% respectively (bit unfair given that the 3770k is 4c/8t, the FX-8350 is 8c/8t and the 13900k is 24c/32t). That isn't even taking into account the iGPU/dGPU would be likely used for running the AI models over the CPU - you cannot deny that there has been a huge uplift in performance of GPUs from 2012 to now.

TL;DR: CPUs may have stagnated with only minor performance gains from each new generation from around 2011 to 2017 but from 2017 to now there has been constant noticeable improvements for each new generation due to AMD actually putting up some decent competition with their Zen architecture.


garry4321 t1_ixzsrfy wrote

Im not saying it hasnt improved at all, I am saying that moore's law is dead, and the multiplication of processing power each year is less and less. Processors used to double in processing power roughly every 2 years.

You even prove my point. The 3770k was released in early 2012. The I9 13900k which is the TOP OF THE FUCKING LINE CPU was JUST released.

Over 10 years and the top of the line CPU is only 250% faster than a chip released back in 2012? We were still flying the space shuttle in 2012. Obama still was a president with black hair in 2012.

2.5x better CPU in over 10 years. NOT GREAT


Cale111 t1_iy2ucr0 wrote

Moore’s law is about transistor count, not speed. It’s still in effect, just slightly less since 2010


Idrialite t1_ixxnpmn wrote

Modern large neural networks usually run on GPUs, not CPUs


garry4321 t1_ixzr35f wrote

So you have to have quad 4090's to run minecraft now since you are rendering dozens to potentially hundreds/thousands of AI's building across an infinite map requiring the areas they are in to be rendered at all times.

Its not going to happen.


Idrialite t1_ixzzmig wrote

I'm 99% sure it'll be a trivial amount of computation within 100 years. We still have plenty of avenues to explore.


garry4321 t1_iy0thtr wrote

Perhaps, but these people are talking like we should do it now with zero understanding of how games work or things get done in a computer game. You don't just simulate AI villages with full pathfinding, and construction/deconstruction, crafting etc. abilities without huge PC requirements.


Remarkable-Hall-9478 t1_ixyk21k wrote

Why would it need to be rendered? And AI isn’t inherently heavyweight. All of this can be done very simply


garry4321 t1_ixzqgox wrote

Why would it need to be rendered?

If the goal is that when you come back to the town, they just plop a pre-fab castle in the middle of the town, thats not AI is it? They have to simulate the villagers building in Realtime at all times. With infinite villages available, that means that the game is now simulating dozens to hundreds of AI's building across the map thus having to keep those areas rendered in memory.


Remarkable-Hall-9478 t1_iy116hs wrote

Why does it have to be rendered in real time at all times? It literally only ever has to be rendered when it’s on-screen. The ”building” can be low-weight calculations done off-screen that then provide an emergent future state. There is absolutely no reason to be constantly running anything in the background except for the minimal amount of extrapolation based on game state. Even if you did have the AI models running in the background, unless you’re actively training them, drawing results out is simple and very low capacity


garry4321 t1_iy1vzff wrote

Ok so not AI. Just prebuilds (like we have now), but when you come to the village, one of the villagers has a block in his hands pretending he’s building it. You walk out of render distance for a second, come back , and there is a castle plopped down and the villager says “I did that”