Submitted by Primex-Me t3_zx68wt in Futurology
Primex-Me OP t1_j1yyry6 wrote
Reply to comment by lurkandpounce in Refrigerant Gel of Future.... by Primex-Me
Hey, thank you....i mean the gel would help maintain a product in 5-8C for upto 90 hrs so that it is safe to transport, considering frequent opening of the container, etc....without power backup...
lurkandpounce t1_j1z9ror wrote
The problem in that application is you are working against the second law of thermodynamics. For that application what you really need is anything (being gel doesn't matter) that is cold with a high specific heat capacity and seriously good insulation.
TL;DR; work on air-tight high quality insulation for the container before worrying about the gel. When you get to that use the second wikipedia source below for high specific heat capacity materials as a starting point to create your gel. Spoiler: ice or salty water might be the best bet for low temp applications like this one.
If you have a container full of just your product at 5C and you put it in the sun the solar radiation will heat that container with about 1000Watts/square meter. With zero insulation it's going to heat up pretty fast. Sade the box and you reduced the Watts/square meter that you need to deal with. Insulate the box and you change the speed that heat energy can move from the box surface to the box interior. Now you can't use these techniques to completely solve the heating problem, provide a reservoir of cold mass that can soak up a lot of energy without changing temperature. This is where the heat capacity of your gel (or whatever, it could be a container of ice) comes into play.
Water is a great example of this since water has a very high heat capacity. To illustrate it put plain water ice in a pan and turn on the heat. The ice will soak up a lot of energy turning to liquid before allowing the temperature of the water in the pan from rising above 0C. (this is in an ideal case of course blah blah assumptions, massless pistons and frictionless surfaces, etc)
Read more about specific heat capacity:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specific_heat_capacity
Materials:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Table_of_specific_heat_capacities
MrGate t1_j1zbstz wrote
> n air-tight high quality insulation for the container before worrying about the gel. When you get to that use the second wikipedia source below for high specific heat capacity materials as a starting point to create your gel. Spoiler: ice or salty water might be the best bet for low temp applications like this one. > > If you have a container full of just your product at 5C and you put it in the sun the solar radiation will heat that container with about 1000Watts/square meter. With zero insulation it's going to heat up pretty fast. Sade the box and you reduced the Watts/square meter that you need to deal with. Insulate the box and you change the speed that heat energy can move from the box surface to the box interior. Now you can't use these techniques to completely solve the heating problem, provide a reservoir of cold mass that can soak up a lot of energy without changing temperature. This is where the heat capacity of your gel (or whatever, it could be a container of ice) comes into play. > > Water is a great example of this since water has a very high heat capacity. To illustrate it put plain water ice in a pan and turn on the heat. The ice will soak up a lot of energy turning to liquid before allowing the temperature of the water in the pan from rising above 0C. (this is in an ideal case of course blah blah assumptions, massless pistons and frictionless surfaces, etc) > > Read more about specific heat capacity:
I was looking at the best insulation for protecting stuff from heat, and found Aerogel to be one of the best, do you think this would also work as insulation for keeping something cool like this?
with that, and salt water Shell inside, i feel like the internal temp would remain pretty cool.
its probably a bit costly with the cost of aerogel and the precautions you got to take handling it etc
lurkandpounce t1_j21jv01 wrote
Sounds like aerogel and a frozen slush of salt water would work, but you're correct about expense! At this point the problem has left the theoretical and has entered the nuts and bolts real-world engineering phase of "what exactly can we live with" vs "what can we afford". These will mandate the tradeoffs and compromises that will result in your final assembly. Not knowing anything about your business I can't help you there ;0), but I can wish you luck!
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