Submitted by rosesandtherest t3_zyvzh5 in Futurology
You don't need complete vacuum so it should be possible to reapply after repairs but I suspect we will see repeat of current solution which is replace...
The first refrigerators are only getting this in the door.
What typically degrades vacuum is outgassing. They've ground up some rocks (and claim that prior insulation is petroleum foam instead of fiberglass which is also environmental), but if not an engineered material, it may have volatiles that continue to be released.
Vacuum can be renewed, but pulling quality vacuum takes time (after a certain point, you are waiting for molecules to wander out of the vacuum port) and dewar-quality needs multi-stage pumping with consumables like pure oil and liquid nitrogen.
The rock/pumice, etc is likely a material to prevent the layers from collapsing onto themselves from pressure. However, that is also what is called a thermal short.
Probably because foam is cheap and was good enough with cheap electricity and no pressure to reduce electricity use.
Because manufacturing cost is probably a bit higher, and mfrs mostly don’t really care whether we use a bunch of energy or whatever they want to sell lots of appliances at a higher profit margin
It's literally cheaper to pull a partial vacuum on the fridge every time you open the door. Which my 10 year old side by side unit does.
It’s obvious, which means the obvious reason is cost. Vacuum panels have been used in refrigerators before, but it’s been cheaper to make refrigerators thicker than add vacuums inside the structure to meet governmental energy requirements. Compressor improvements and foam are going to start struggling to meet ever tightening requirements, so vacuum panels and structures could be a new measure to meet guidelines.
It is a game-changer to replace the insulation of a refrigerator which has been unchanged for the last 30 or 40 years which is not efficient and environmentally friendly.
> We have found a sustainable solution that also has benefits in terms of energy efficiency and usable space which was getting smaller and smaller because the insulation was getting bigger and bigger.
> While the internal components using BluRox is heavier overall, the insulation will not degrade for the entire life of the product and is also fully recyclable at end of life unlike foam-based insulation which reduces its energy efficiency over time
I haven’t been so excited for a long time. It’s like seeing a reinvention of a wheel or an airplane shape. Finally, some innovation that has nothing to do with adding screens or cameras.
I've recently updated my fridge to Liebherr with BluPerformance (their previous invention https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-1CFUK2VN0I ), and was surprised how at the same dimensions it had more interior space, not only that but the rear is completely flat, no radiator, which means you can now push it almost next to the wall (assuming the outlet is inside the wall, mine is not, but future home designs might have to consider this) and if this improves everything ever further, wow.
Sounds great, but I wonder how long the vacuum seal will last
I give it until shortly after the appliance movers get to it.
I would like that my Liebherr refrigerator stop bothering me beeping every time that I have the door open for more than 10 seconds (probably more). No timing settings possible, only solution is to turn off the refrigerator for a couple of minutes for looking ingredients.
Just push the door switch in.
What model do you have? I swear even my oldest liebherr had a switch
The liebherr I replaced because when it developed a fault there was no way to switch off the beeper had only a button, that would stop it beeping for about half an hour. It would start in the middle of the night. Never again
Or a button. All of them have one still I think.
Don’t leave the door open for more than 10 seconds. It’s reminding you to save you energy bills.
The beeping is because the refrigerator detected a large temperture change. You are asking to completely change thermodynamics?
No it’s not... it’s a door switch but way to be smug.
No he wasn't able to switch off the beeper. Many fridges can, however someone thought making the fridges beep uncontrollably would get them more repair money. For me it caused me to replace instead and avoid liebherr as a brand in future.
Thermodynamics doesn't beep. Annoying electronics do.
Source? J/K
Hey this looks like actual real improvement and not another marketing stunt, I will consider buying it when available for sure.
Looks like the hybrid "B" model with only the door equipped with the new insulation comes out next month. Then the A grade freezer that is entirely wrapped in the new insulation releases in 2 years.
Vacuum is the ultimate insulator. Wonder for how long it will retain a high vacuum state. This could be applied to hot water cylinders too.
So you’re telling me I can buy an excavator and a fridge from the same company? Cool. Actually I think this isn’t the only one
Wait til you hear about Yamaha...
Or Mitsubishi
Or Lamborghini...
I had a liebherr that went wrong and would beep- no way to prevent it beeping without powering down completely, would start in the middle of the night and continue indefinitely. I replaced it even though it could have been (expensively) repaired, with a beeper free model from a different company.
I've been using freezers with this technology for more than a decade...
https://www.ft.com/content/d634e198-a435-11e5-873f-68411a84f346
Where? Must have missed that part
wow shock you get downvoted for stating facts
What is meant by "25% space". It's nonsensical as there is no context. Sounds like it's 75% smaller useful space as compared to older tech. Obviously, that's not it.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/rosesandtherest:
It is a game-changer to replace the insulation of a refrigerator which has been unchanged for the last 30 or 40 years which is not efficient and environmentally friendly.
> We have found a sustainable solution that also has benefits in terms of energy efficiency and usable space which was getting smaller and smaller because the insulation was getting bigger and bigger.
> While the internal components using BluRox is heavier overall, the insulation will not degrade for the entire life of the product and is also fully recyclable at end of life unlike foam-based insulation which reduces its energy efficiency over time
I haven’t been so excited for a long time. It’s like seeing a reinvention of a wheel or an airplane shape. Finally, some innovation that has nothing to do with adding screens or cameras.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/zyvzh5/liebherr_announces_worlds_first_refrigerator_that/j283v8r/
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Instead of reducing 1/3 of the thickness of the walls why not making it even more efficient? An almost free freezer that last 30 years would be nice...
Can we stop using "for the very first time" in this sub. It is too common
"sustainable lava stone"? People said that about coal too.
Well yeah, but you won't burn the lava. It's just insulation. The whole comparison is silly.
I guess I should have put the quotes around the word "sustainable". Maybe that would have made a better comparison to their statement. What seems to be "sustainable" today, may not be in the future.
We are living on a floating rock with borrowed time, once we consume all the "sustainable" resources, we will be living no more.
It's sustainable because we'll just start fracking near volcanoes, allowing us to force more lava to the surface, thus creating more! Perfectly sustainable, no further thoughts needed! /s
The year is 2099. Humans have sapped all the heat energy from the planets core. The planet is about to undergo a cataclysmic event where no life will survive.
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Kopites_Roar t1_j28b61j wrote
It's such a good improvement and so obvious in hindsight - that's what makes you wonder why it's not always been done this way.
The only question is whether the vacuum will leak through the plastic over the years and if it can be "revacuumed" to maintain it. If that's an expensive process (I'd prefer some sort of schrader valve to DIY it).