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mhornberger t1_j1tjtjn wrote

Reply to comment by Human_Anybody7743 in Battery swapping spurs Kenya's electric motorbike drive by For_All_Humanity

I think it depends on the speed those small EVs are driven. In a place with poor roads, maybe everyone has to drive more slowly. But in the US, motorcycles have a quite significantly higher fatality rate per mile of travel. And I'd wager that countries in which people travel more by scooter have a higher death rate on the road.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-related_death_rate

I definitely prefer EV scooters over ICE scooters.

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Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1tnr65 wrote

I was more thinking something like this moving at 40. Also without a car-free sample you can't distinguish the danger caused by a scooter from the danger caused by not being protected from a car (statistically death and injury rates are heavily skewed towards crashes involving a car) and high speed motorcycles are frequently lumped in with low speed.

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Surur t1_j1tto74 wrote

I wish the anti-car movement would campaign for small EV cars instead of buses, trains and bikes. At least they offer the real benefit of cars without the negatives of public transport and bikes.

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Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1tu5do wrote

They're not a viable 'instead' though as they also don't offer the upsides of those options. A 4 wheel LEV parking lot and road system will occupy 30% of your city rather than 75%, it still needs a sober adult without any balance, sleep or coordination disorders, it is still dangerous, it still makes outdoor spaces horrible to be in if you have enough of them to move everyone. It needs to be an 'as well'.

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Surur t1_j1tuh9v wrote

They could use the same infrastructure as bikes lol.

Or are you implying bikes don't need parking lots and roads?

And of course being electrified they could be centrally controlled e.g. robotaxis.

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Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1tvvhi wrote

> They could use the same infrastructure as bikes lol.

Well no. If it's status quo rather than disability and elderly only then you're just making the bike paths uninhabitable by children, new riders, etc.

> Or are you implying bikes don't need parking lots and roads?

It's a matter of density. A 4m wide train line can take 80,000 people an hour. A 4m wide bike lane can move 10,000-20,000 people an hour. A car park sized spot can fit 40 bicycles vs 10 mopeds or 3 of these. A folding bike can fit under your desk, as can an escooter. Doubling or tripling your capacity and reducing danger with LEVs is appropriate for some areas, but there are no silver bullets.

You need local streets heavily biased towards smaller vehicles and transit and active transport pathways safe enough that you see a 60 year old grandma biking to the shops next to their 3 yo grandkid.

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Shillbot_9001 t1_j1xmux9 wrote

>Well no. If it's status quo rather than disability and elderly only then you're just making the bike paths uninhabitable by children, new riders, etc.

Uninhabitable? The dutch manage just fine.

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Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1xnaiu wrote

Their bike lanes aren't full of microcars because they're restricted, scooters are a big problem, and there are ongoing efforts to improve safety.

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