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SSGSS_Bender t1_j1k69f0 wrote

Have you ever heard that your phone battery degrades more the faster you charge it? Did you know these EV vehicles are affected the same way? Every time you use a Supercharger at a grocery store, you are rapidly degrading your battery. L

And no this isn't anti-ev propaganda. This comes directly from my Subaru/Toyota EV training. I was trained to tell my customers to limit the amount of Supercharger uses. So while it's awesome that we can charge a car this fast, please don't think that there isn't a drawback.


beastpilot t1_j1k9da5 wrote

Your Subaru / Toyota EV training told you to tell customers to avoid Tesla Superchargers?

The Toyota that famously has avoided EV's as long as they can and don't have ANY right now? Same with Subaru?

Consider your source. Anyone that refers to Generic DC Fast Charging as "superchargers" is not an expert on EV's.

Plenty of people with Teslas have supercharged exclusively and have data. Does it degrade? Yes. Is it "rapidly"? Not at all- some of these cars have 200K miles on them and still have 80%+ capacity.


Corsair4 t1_j1kj4xl wrote

>The Toyota that famously has avoided EV's as long as they can and don't have ANY right now? Same with Subaru?

If you're going to rant about accuracy, at least be correct. Toyota has the BZ4x, and the Lexus ux300e, and the soon to be released RZ450e.

Subaru has the Solterra.

The Bz4x and Solterra are basically the same vehicle. They aren't brilliant, but their existence is not disputable.


SSGSS_Bender t1_j1kbor8 wrote

  1. I never mentioned Tesla Superchargers, they are proprietary. Any EV Supercharger that charges faster than what you can get installed at home will degrade your battery much faster.
  2. Toyota bZ4X & Subaru Solterra
  3. I don't dispute that some brands handle it better. I just know that Toyota, Subaru, Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, and Ford recommend that you stick to slow charging for longevity.

beastpilot t1_j1kcgjc wrote

  1. "Supercharger" is a Tesla trademarked term. It always means a Tesla charger. The term you are looking for that is used exclusively in the industry is DC Fast Charger (DCFC).

  2. Yes, they have one now, in exceedingly limited supply. 10 years after Tesla, who has now shipped 3M vehicles, so maybe they aren't experts on batteries yet??

  3. You took Subaru/Toyota training and are sure Kia, Hyundai, Chevy, and Ford all recommend sticking to "slow charging to avoid "rapid degradation"?

Citation needed. What defines "fast charging?" What defines "rapid degradation?"

Are you aware Federal Law requires 8 years/100K mile battery warranties with minimal degradation?

The reason they don't want you to DCFC is they don't want you to realize how minimal the support for DCFC is right now if you don't have a Tesla.


mrgulabull t1_j1k7zwy wrote

It’s a valid point, but if you’re doing this occasionally for long distance road trips the affect is negligible. Most people do / should charge at home for their day to day travel. The higher cost of supercharging vs. at home charging further encourages this behavior.


Asusrty t1_j1kdzo7 wrote

Effects Of Frequent Fast Charging An electric car’s ability to accept higher charge currents is affected by the battery chemistry. The accepted wisdom in the industry is that faster charging will increase the rate at which an EV’s battery capacity will decline. However, a study conducted by the Idaho National Laboratory (INL) concluded that while an electric car’s battery will deteriorate faster if it’s only power source is Level 3 charging (which is almost never the case) the difference isn’t particularly pronounced.

The INL tested two pairs of Nissan Leaf EVs from the 2012 model year that were driven and charged twice daily. Two were replenished from 240-volt "Level 2" chargers like those used in one's garage, with the other two taken to Level 3 stations. They were each were driven on public reads in the Phoenix, Ariz. area over the course of a year. They were tested under the same conditions, with their climate control systems set at 72 degrees and the same set of drivers piloting all four cars. The vehicles’ battery capacity was tested at 10,000-mile intervals.

After all four test cars had been driven for 50,000 miles, the Level 2 cars had lost around 23 percent of their original battery capacity, while the Level 3 cars were down by around 27 percent. The 2012 Leaf had an average range of 73 miles, which means these numbers represent a difference of around just three miles on a charge.

It should be noted that much of the INL’s testing over the 12-month period was conducted in extremely hot Phoenix weather, which can inherently take its own toll on battery life, as would the deep charging and discharging necessary to keep the relatively short-range 2012 Leaf running.

The takeaway here is that while DC charging may have an effect on an electric car’s battery life, it should be minimal, especially in that it’s not a primary charging source.


danuffer t1_j1k8dnr wrote

Unless your commute is 120 miles each way, you don’t need to supercharge outside of long distance trips


mtntrail t1_j1ka1mp wrote

This was my first question. We are offgrid on solar power for 15 years and now have a good lithium battery. Charge rate is very important and measured in hours not minutes for the very reason you state.


ryarock2 t1_j1kd0lk wrote

The misleading thing for most people is still thinking in gas terms. You don’t use a fast charger as often as you would a gas station.

I charge at home every night. My car gets almost 300 miles. Most people don’t drive anywhere near that daily. So the only time you need a fast charger is when you go on a road trip.

And using fast DC chargers that infrequently has a negative effect.


mtntrail t1_j1l0ujz wrote

True enough if you can charge at home. I think the article referenced fast charging as an option for ppl who can’t charge at home. I would like to know how the occasional fast charging effects battery life, I know for our Lithium battery the charging cycles are stringently controlled so as to avoid quick charges. I imagine all these current issues will be resolved as the technology matures. I would like to consider an ev vehicle as our next car but we would have to add a significant amount of solar and if the car is not there during the 10 AM to 2PM sweet spot, then that causes other issues.


th3d3wd3r t1_j1lkhae wrote

Subaru and Toyota can use superchargers? I thought that was a tesla technology/standard. What voltage traction batteries do subaru and Toyota use?