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Coachtzu t1_j0jzk6g wrote

Except not... There are tons of robots doing manual labor jobs already. We need to stop reimagining our place in the workforce and start reimagining our relationship with work entirely.


deadc0deh t1_j0k5rhc wrote

Human labour is extremely and rapidly adaptable. Specialised labour still needs to repair the robots, and there may be a handful of 'easy' tasks where the cost of automating is higher than the cost of employment. This is already the case if you see a mass produced manufacturing line.

The real impending issue is that automation is only possible with access to capital, and whether it lowers average cost.

Those robots are often very specialised and very expensive. The problem is that they are causing capital to have increasing power and productivity, leading towards it being more efficient and profitable to have a smaller number of companies who are able to make that investment, and other just die out (a large barrier to competitiveness). This happened in the 1900s with cars - GM/Ford ect bought a number of their competitors.

The information age is doing the same thing with data - data becomes more valuable when you have a lot of it. One picture is worthless, but a billion allows you to extract relationships and features. Today we are continually seeing large tech companies acquire smaller ones/

Net effect is we have industries conglomerate until you're left with a few powerful entities who point at each other as competition but ultimately collude.

You need strong regulation and oversight to manage that, and a government supportive of labour. Will that happen in a system where you only have to donate to two parties? Or threaten election integrity by donating to the party that doesn't threaten your power? That may be a tough ask.


Inariameme t1_j0nhu3b wrote

Sure but, paradigms do shift and the polysci one is overdue.


Frame_Late t1_j0kcge1 wrote

Regulation means nothing without moral fortitude. Everyone is saying that we need to hold businesses accountable, but nobody can agree what that is. The powerful use that to divide us, and use the leeches of society as a wedge to.imoede progress.

Until we reach a real consensus on what the future should hold, the entire human race is in danger of a massive upheaval in the next century.

We need to reach a point where if we're going to regulate business, we might just need to ban AI altogether in some cases, or find a way for people to remain relevant. Otherwise all the socialists who the rich were using to strangle small businesses will be our downfall.


gachamyte t1_j0l5xkg wrote

This is true and and will become more true with time. My experience within different work fields says that most of human labor will be at the request of humans. More like a gig work app thing that pings you for labor temp or long term based on the terms of your contract. These contracts will dictate your progression. Maybe your life moving forward and your ability to reproduce. Unless something or an event really shakes things up in the future.

The labor market and labor force is pretty much akin to wage slavery and orchestrated to funnel all ability for change to those already in control.

It’s not mining diamonds or oil rigs labor. It’s standing with a flag or directly interacting with humans like customer care. The true disconnect of the “elite” will come to fruition when humans are worth less than a robot. Once the cost scenario says that humans won’t produce they fully become the product. Your life is already forfeit to a market and global power so the next step is clear.


Coachtzu t1_j0ldxt5 wrote

I largely agree with you, though I think there are a few points I'm not as sure about. The first is that I think we are already seeing humans struggle to retain their ability to interact with live humans in the age of ever-expanding technology. My own experience as a somewhat angst young man in the workforce was that it was actually incredibly beneficial to have to learn how to socialize with people different from myself if I wanted to pay rent. I fear, that if we remove that pressure, there are a solid number of young people who would retreat behind a screen or into a virtual environment and never risk the perils that comes with social interaction. I used to coach basketball, and I was seeing it towards the end of my time in that field (around 2018) where kids had a harder time confronting and dealing with conflict face to face compared to when I started in 2010. I had a lot more breaking up of physical fights in practice, but a lot more cohesion than I did at the end.

The second is that we are barreling towards a point where humans are the product like you said, which I don't necessarily see as entirely bad if handled as getting paid to help other humans, but that likely won't happen. The big issue from a practical sense as well is that as we remove humans from the workforce, they will progressively lose the ability to purchase the product unless we give them purchasing power somehow.


DropsTheMic t1_j0moxol wrote

Seriously! The amount of knee-jerk fear mongering on this sub and others after ChatGPT launched has gotten ridiculous. There is healthy skepticism that recognizes that maybe it's not wise to start a new career doing repetitive or easily duplicated tasks lacking in creative thinking and then there is this. If you are really surprised by this new chatbot then you really haven't been seeing the writing on the wall in the AI and machine learning world for quite some time now. If you are worried about losing out to AI then double down on your skills that can't be replicated easily by AI and learn how to integrate AI tech into your life in a successful way. Direct competition against AI in some fields is going to be like playing chess vrs the program that beat the world champs, don't try. Play a new game.


Black_RL t1_j0q314c wrote


And let’s not forget all the emerging humanoids, Boston Dynamics, CyberOne, Agility Robotics, Ameca, Tesla bot, etc…..


Utahmule t1_j0ne53d wrote

What jobs? Outside of warehouse/ factory jobs. Manual labor such as construction is still all humans.


Coachtzu t1_j0ng7m9 wrote

There are thousands of robots already in existence that make construction jobs easier and roles that required 2 men to lift something now can be lifted by a robot (just one example: Houses can be 3D printed. Prefab home parts are able to be built by robots in factories and then assembled by humans in a fraction of the time.

This also discounts the already existing mechanics that while they don't have AI, have certainly displaced workers from manual labor jobs. Look at massive commercial farms, or logging operations. What used to take teams of men going up into the woods or in the fields to get a harvest has been replaced by trucks with cranes that can lift logs onto the bed and get pulled out of the woods, or tractor cultivators that do 14-20 rows at once.


Utahmule t1_j0nisyr wrote

That link is just a different version of a forklift or crane so not a good example of robots replacing construction workers at all.

3d printed houses are just machines that lay concrete for all the walls. This is ugly, expensive, slow, limited capabilities, remodel or demo would be a nightmare if not impossible. We build with efficient materials and concrete is not an efficient way to build walls for a building, it's total overkill, slower and more expensive than framing and sheething.

Prefab homes are built by people in a warehouse, not robot assembly lines. It's faster because it's in a controlled environment.

Yeah, farming and resource extraction is for sure getting automated.


Coachtzu t1_j0nokqb wrote

Seems like you're arguing semantics on the first bit. It was one example, I think it fits the bill of a robot doing a job a human would otherwise have to do, but literally googling construction robots comes up with tons of results.

That is the current iteration of 3D printed homes. You don't think in 10 years there will be any progress? Pretty sure based on the way robots and AI have already shifted so much in the last 10 years, it won't look the same as it does right now.

Some prefab homes are absolutely built by robots, look up the company dfab.


Utahmule t1_j0nqvo7 wrote

Time will tell. Luckily I'm old enough I won't have to worry. It's an extremely interesting subject though.

Not semantics, with your logic a chain hoist is a machine replacing people.

Have you looked at the dfab website? It's just people using machines for some types of molded walls. Literally in a factory just fabing up small walls with a robot, which still requires a couple people controlling it and it's way slower than a couple of experienced concrete workers just doing it all the selves... Guarantee it's way more expensive too... A few products don't use machines at all and require a team of people to do the entire task. It's extremely far from constructing even a camper trailer, much less an actual house.


twilight-actual t1_j0k2xyz wrote

Without work and competition providing the basis of value and the distribution of that value throughout our populace, what takes their place?


Every attempt humanity has made at Egalitarianism has resulted in an oppressive police-state autocracy.

If we want to "re-evaluate our relationship with work", this is the first issue to address.

Edit: downvotes? You do realize that every attempt at true socialism and communism have failed, right? And from the ashes of these emerged the Soviet system who's offspring are now attempting to pummel Ukraine into the dark ages, followed by the CCP.

If we all no longer have to work, what do you think is going to happen? The owners of all the automated systems will just hand out money to everyone, and in such a way that everyone will get exactly what they feel they need?

Or, will we attempt to nationalize the means of production so that the government / party / central authority owns all the means of production and thus determines how resources are distributed?

And how do we determine who gets what? Are we all equal? Are some pigs more equal than other farm animals?

Downvotes without a response tell me you just don't like to be challenged with really thinking about the issue.

This is supposed to be a sub about the future, right?

I'm actually extremely disappointed in the quality and caliber here.


SillyNluv t1_j0k3uh6 wrote

I always imagined we would pivot towards research, artwork(I know, I know) and relationships.


Coachtzu t1_j0lbusu wrote

I said reimagining our relationship with work, not eliminate it entirely. Though I do think that will inevitably happen for many workers, and we need to prepare for it in some way whether your fears of a communist hellscape are taken to fruition or not.

I think this largely means reallocating dollars towards social value instead of production, the value of teachers and home health workers will be immense, as well workers to support maintenance and repair of our automated lines of production. Still likely need humans as head chefs in upscale restaurants, but you could easily see their prep work done by kitchen robots instead of humans.

But at the end of the day, when you look at the number of jobs in our economy, they're mostly low paying manual labor or driving jobs that will likely be replaced with robots and we will need to reimagine how those people survive without people going into a tailspin over the dangers of communism because the alternative is mass rebellion on a frightening scale.


davezerep t1_j0k7r7d wrote

I’m noticing a lot of these anti-automaton posts. They don’t make a lot of sense given the trajectory of technology. What’s the rub? Did someone let a bunch of luddites out of a cage or something?


AladeenModaFuqa t1_j0lqw0t wrote

More people are worried about terminator or iRobot than they lead on apparently


Shiningc t1_j0k5mxk wrote

>For instance, Altman said that if OpenAI could master artificial general intelligence, which is machine intelligence that can solve issues just as well as a person, the company might “catch the light of all future value in the universe.”

We're not even close to having Artificial General Intelligence, because the entire approach is wrong. People tend to think that if we feed AIs enough "data", then somehow it will magically become intelligent enough to achieve sentience. But that's not how it goes. Or even worse, they think that it's data + fixed sets of instructions.

This whole dystopian image of a super-intelligent AI lording over us and forcing us to do nothing but manual labor, well that is the same idea as supposedly a super-intelligent or super-talented human being lording over us. Either people will revolt or people will submit, depending on what they think about it.

Another idea is that an AI is going to be "cold", amoral, devoid of "feelings" and only mechanically tries to achieve a "task" at its hand. Well that's entirely the result of the idea that an "AI" is going to be nothing but data + a fixed set of instructions. But how can a sentient being with supposed free-will, be devoid of a moral system? By that I mean an independent set of moral system that it will independently develop over time. A sentient AI is going to have to choose for itself what is the best moral course of action to take.

If we ignore that, then we're saying that an AI is dumb, blind and is only following a fixed set of instructions. But that's not very "intelligent" in a general sense. That AI is only following instructions of some other master.


moofart-moof t1_j0kecjz wrote

If the future the AI wants sucks, people will burn the infrastructure to the ground. These articles are frankly written by morons who don’t see how fragile the capitalist ecosystem is atm.


dashingstag t1_j0kuzad wrote

I have a theory about this. The only way to know true AGI is here is if they are actual participants in the economy, that means not only just consuming resources to sustain themselves but being able to desire goods and services. If not it’s just sophisticated code. This probably has complications that would require AI rights. We would reach Super-ai without actually reaching AGI.

The only fear I have is the super rich owning super-ai and devaluing human labor causing a snake eating its own tail scenario. AI can have near-infinite production but if no one can afford it then the value of that production is actually zero.

I am probably leaning more towards cybernetics as the economy can still function. Anything other scenario the economy or society would collapse and self-destruct before any dystopian AI develops


Shiningc t1_j0kxott wrote

I tend to think that an AI that the rich or the corporations can easily contain or control won’t be a remarkable one, just like a remarkable human being isn’t going to be easy to contain for a corporation and what not. I mean it is possible, depending on how such a being is going to be manipulated by its masters.


dashingstag t1_j0kzdz5 wrote

Oh you don’t need a sentient AI. Just a competent regular one will do. Just like how Amazon can already undercut competitors by selling just a little under what their users are selling by learning from transaction behaviour.


somethingsomethingbe t1_j0kkt9o wrote

What definition of AGI includes sentience? I thought the definition was, "Artificial general intelligence (AGI) is the ability of an intelligent agent to understand or learn any intellectual task that a human being can," (thank you Wikipedia).


Shiningc t1_j0km8c8 wrote

I don’t think you can achieve human level intelligence without sentience.


Surur t1_j0l6b7l wrote

Well, that is an unsupported opinion only.


TricksterOfFate t1_j0vh8dv wrote

Do you have the data of how the human consciousness work in the human brain?


Shiningc t1_j0x0b7z wrote

No, the whole point is that we have no idea how it works yet.


micktalian t1_j0kx1be wrote

"Person with limited understanding of reality or modern life attempts to make predictions they aren't qualified to make." There, summarized the article for you. 50 years ago no one could predict with any sort of real accuracy or precision what our world would be like today. The same should be said about the next 50 years.


Goblinboogers t1_j0kznbd wrote

The floors at walmart are cleaned at night by a robot. Yup it sure will all be manual


Ok_Fox_1770 t1_j0lgt14 wrote

I’m an electrician, no robots takin my job. As much as I’d like it to.


Utahmule t1_j0nfiw9 wrote

They will not take over construction until they start constructing things in a way robots can deal with. Fortunately people view architecture as art and important. This will help prevent things being built in simple enough way so that robots could do it.

I doubt construction can be automated in the next century. Too many variables, issues, different types of materials and parts. It's not an assembly line, its incredibly complex, it's full of uneven ground, obstacles, etc.


Ok_Fox_1770 t1_j0nfmsw wrote

Those 3D house printers are pretty cool, I’d take a flinstone house


Utahmule t1_j0nng1p wrote

It's like a mobile soft serve ice cream machine lol. The cost of that much concrete and the end result is ridiculous. Your essentially just replacing concrete guys and framers. Still have to frame the roof though and with concrete guys you get a nice clean finish.


Primary-Food6413 OP t1_j0llzc1 wrote

You will see a robot fixing sockets and lights 😜


Ok_Fox_1770 t1_j0lm5p0 wrote

Oh sure take the easy stuff haha, it can have the crawling through attic part of my life, tape a drill to a Boston dynamic dog and send it off to hell


Zabuzaxsta t1_j0m1xj0 wrote

Seriously shut the fuck up about AI today god damn


musicofspheres1 t1_j0kmaqg wrote

Most of the workforce is in the service sector, task based jobs. Those will become automated once cost effective to do so


SeneInSPAAACE t1_j0knldw wrote


At this point in time, AI just adds another layer of abstraction to work.
It's like... say, you're making cookies. You could use a knife or a set of carving tools, and you'd have full and total control over the sahpe of each individual cookie. Or you could use a cookie cutter. Or you could have a machine where you just turn it on, in goes the dough and out come the cookies.


NabreLabre t1_j0mks2e wrote

Has futurology been overrun with bots today? What's with all the ubi and ai posts today?


lizarto t1_j0o0e7l wrote

…and yesterday and the day before that. Nothing but posts bitching about people with negative opinions of AI.


theboblit t1_j0kr24e wrote

Manual labor was like the first job for robots lol. If anything the future careers for humans would be in the entertainment and service industries.


Bucket1982 t1_j0ksp5c wrote

Can’t wait to watch the college grads doing manual labor. Wahahahahahahaha


TheZimmerian t1_j0l1cq6 wrote

Right, because the current conundrum around AI art doesn't prove in the slightest that everyone is replaceable.



FuturologyBot t1_j0k24kp wrote

The following submission statement was provided by /u/Primary-Food6413:

Will AI enhance workforce or break it down? Is ChatGPT a pocket nuclear weapon? The president of Y Combinator, Sam Altman, and the CEO of the AI company he co-founded in 2015 with Elon Musk and others, OpenAI, talk about ChatGPT, an AI chat bot. 

Innovations and better technology will open up many more applications over the next decade. Businesses, in particular, will benefit from these advancements. For example, new AI chatbots with advanced translation capabilities could help companies expand globally and improve international customer service.

Please reply to OP's comment here:


dejco t1_j0lmcda wrote

The future is robots working instead of people. You will buy or rent robot that will work your work.


karriesully t1_j0m629l wrote

AI and ML is great at decisions. Humans are great at judgement. Physical labor is absolutely viable but even that will be assisted by robotic tech and has been for decades (see manufacturing).

Most relatable example: This is why doctors & diagnostic logic will be automated well before nurses.


Oguinjr t1_j0motle wrote

I was the least convincing article I have ever read. It was a waste of my time on every possible way.


JustanOkie t1_j0mpo0w wrote

Tyson plant tech here. Manual labor consists of fixing the robots.


1hotrodney t1_j0n71hl wrote

Plumbers, electricians, automotive mechanics. There is alot of skilled labor jobs like these that robots will never be able to do. Even 100yrs from now i highly doubt a robot will be able to install carpet at peoples homes yet alone replace a sway bar link that is rotted or replace a simple wall outlet after the drywallers messed up the box


Utahmule t1_j0nhapt wrote

Exactly. People are thinking of manual labor as just factory, warehouse and janitorial work... Yeah those jobs are fucked so is administrative, financial, and other process type office jobs... So most office jobs. Transportation is another doomed industry. Farmers and ranchers are going to have interesting next century. I can't see mining/ extracting needing people for much longer.

Construction, mechanics, firefighters, hopefully artists, teachers, care providers, scientists, engineers and probably sales people are all pretty safe.


Evipicc t1_j0m9wfw wrote

All of these idiotic AI fear mongering posts are getting really aggravating.

1 - No, AI will not fOrCe EvErYoNe InTo MaNuAl LaBor it's going to ERADICATE MANUAL LABOR. Physical tasks are literally the easiest things to automated among what can be, why would anyone employ a messy, mistake prone human when they can spend half as much for a machine that is never late, never complains, works 10,000x faster, and generally makes no mistakes?

2 - We need to properly tax organizations that benefit from automation in order to improve quality of life for everyone...


TZ1205 t1_j0mc9ih wrote

Number 2 sounds like something that Andrew Yang guy was saying…


Evipicc t1_j0mjncp wrote

The alternative is 90% of the population starving to death. Guess it would solve climate change.


Benny_Lava760 t1_j0qr7rz wrote

I don’t think the majority of people would sit there with there mouths open like baby birds waiting for the “elites” to toss scraps into our mouths. We would figure out how to get food without grocery stores again.


Evipicc t1_j0r3cmr wrote

Yeah it's called hanging them and distributing their assets... What we did before unions were a thing. Beating the boss to death in front of his family was commonplace.


Utahmule t1_j0ng9wl wrote

We can't even get printers to function consistently. Every machine we use takes people to run it, maintain it, they consume energy, they are extremely temperature sensitive, when they do things wrong they don't stop, they don't catch mistakes, they can't deal with any variables... Humans don't constantly breakdown. Humans don't need constant maintenance and replacement parts. Humans are cheap.


Evipicc t1_j0nhsjw wrote

Sorry but my field of study and work is automation, robotics and mechatronics... There is absolutely no competition between human and machine even right now, just price, let alone in the coming future with the myriad of breakthroughs in AI, material sciences and design.

Your point about not catching mistakes is also just flat out wrong. There are entire systems dedicated to just that that simply don't miss.

Humans are only cheap while they're willing to be abused... That's likely coming to an end.


Utahmule t1_j0npeq5 wrote

I work with machines and robots in construction and I'm telling you there is no competition between human and machine even right now. The only piece of machinery that is faster is heavy equipment. Everything else is simply a better version of a tool we used before. Like instead of a hammer we have nail guns or instead straight edge screed we have powered ones, instead of levels and strings we can use lasers... Not a person is replaced though, just faster. Equipment breaks down constantly, some line breaks, etc. The computer layout equipment is more often wrong and takes forever to use, it doesn't know it's wrong but I do because I know what the fuck I'm looking at and can use other methods/ tools to verify. Nothing is ever exactly right in the plans so without an experienced human then there would be no way to adapt and overcome. I've never seen or used any machine or computer that catches its own mistake or can predict an issue that will arise.

I love construction, I loved manual labor when I was younger, it's fun, its engaging, it pays great, it's rewarding... I don't know what abuse you refer to but most people enjoy physically doing stuff... I traveled the world specifically going after physical labor, exciting, adventurous work and it was awesome.


Evipicc t1_j0nt2p3 wrote

As an aside, you personally liking physical labor doesn't mean everyone does, or that it's good for the body. That said...

Scale will always be a challenging factor. Large scale construction will certainly take longer to automate than manufacturing, which is generally what I was referencing. I worked as an aerospace machinist, but that ENTIRE process is being automated, top to bottom. Material handling, setup, machining, tool maintenance and replacement, finishing and deburring, and inspection were ALL getting automated right in front of me.

Like you said, shit breaks down, but frankly there will come a day where a machine steps in to fix the other machine. Every human task will be automated this century. Hopefully legislation keep up.


Utahmule t1_j0nu2cz wrote

You personally disliking it doesn't mean everyone does. It's better for the body than sitting around staring at a screen. Physical activity and moderate lifting is somehow possibly not good for us? Wtf.

You're job is in an extremely controlled facility (built by people so machines could work inside) and already used machines. No wonder they are just automating all of it. You essentially work an assembly line job.

This century!? Lol they have been saying that forever and yet machines we have been making for over 100 years still constantly fail...

If your not too old, you might wanna learn an actual trade.


Evipicc t1_j0o7ffo wrote

Lol ok boomer... Not to be reductive of course. "Go InTo A tRaDe" has to be the dumbest thing I've ever heard in response to a discussion about automation.

I have a hard time understanding how everyone can't see the technology explosion that is about to happen. Silicon Photonics, AI, Automation, Bio-Mimetic Engineering... We're gearing up for another industrial revolution. If Legislation doesn't keep up people are literally going to starve to death.

The entire process of making a home is going to be automated within our lifetime. Every manufacturing job. Every menial service job like cashier/fast food/delivery etc. If we don't put systems in place to support the fact that there will be almost 0 manual labor (Aside from large scale civil construction as you allude to, for which you are correct) there's going to be problems. Just saying "YoU shOulD hAvE goTtEn A bEtTer JoB!" Is fucking dumb.


Utahmule t1_j0o8925 wrote

I'm a nomadic pot head millennial... But ok.


Evipicc t1_j0o8ulr wrote

So let's rehash: What is your solution to the inevitable erasure of 90% of all work through automation?


Utahmule t1_j0oajp6 wrote

Uh, we weren't discussing a solution to robots taking all the jobs...

Kind of difficult to come up with a solution to a hypothetical situation that would be so far in the totally different future, that neither of us can even comprehend the actual way society adapts and changes to this future along the way... It might not be some nightmare, we will probably just change things here and there as it becomes more prevalent.

If things were exactly the same as now and suddenly robots said, " we are taking your jobs." I guess the solution would be to protest, push for some regulations, I don't know... Would we need incomes if everything was just controlled by machines? People want money for time spent but robots don't... We wouldn't need to pay them or for them. I suppose all means of making money would be through entertainment, gambling, competition, but it might not even be necessary.


Evipicc t1_j0obi17 wrote

My original point was about that, but I can see scrolling up that you were focused on the IF and not the WHEN/Solutions of it all. I think that's where our fundamental difference in opinion lies. I believe that it's a certainty, and sooner than most realize, that automation is going to displace a great majority of the workforce. It's literally my job to make that happen as funny as that is. It seems you believe this is "so far in the totally different future", which I just inherently don't believe is true.


Utahmule t1_j0occpp wrote

It's happening now for sure and it's going to rapidly increase. I just don't believe that certain skilled labor jobs can be replaced in the next 75- 100 years... Things where people have to do the work because getting a robot that can deal with all the varied materials and terrain is impossible. Once it is possible it then has to become cheaper than human labor... I just don't see it in anyone that's currently alive's lifetime.

The rest of the workforce... I dunno what they will do. Lots of homeless, lots of bad shit til it works itself out. I am just focusing on getting myself to a point that I'm wealthy enough, I don't have to worry about it and neither does my kid lol.


Evipicc t1_j0odvoy wrote

Totally understand the "I get mine" mentality as realistically that's all we have the power to do.


Utahmule t1_j0ofwiq wrote

It's freaking scary but its me and mine's only chance. Shit is going to get bad with the energy consumption, lack of resources, jobs, etc. Really bad and robots not my main concern..


Primary-Food6413 OP t1_j0jzj9t wrote

Will AI enhance workforce or break it down? Is ChatGPT a pocket nuclear weapon? The president of Y Combinator, Sam Altman, and the CEO of the AI company he co-founded in 2015 with Elon Musk and others, OpenAI, talk about ChatGPT, an AI chat bot. 

Innovations and better technology will open up many more applications over the next decade. Businesses, in particular, will benefit from these advancements. For example, new AI chatbots with advanced translation capabilities could help companies expand globally and improve international customer service.


KingDuken t1_j0k22jb wrote

What exactly is your concern about AI in particular? Do you think we will lose control of its learning processes?


-Lysergian t1_j0k9bcc wrote

Manual labor is the magic of the world. With thought, intention, and will, all things are possible.