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ElJamoquio t1_j0lj65f wrote

Yeah I think the accounting to call that 'net zero' is pretty spurious.

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bob0979 t1_j0ln2h7 wrote

'net zero'

I'm curious how they got zero emissions from 70% emission reduction of processed waste oils. Like I get it's better but net zero isn't even a stretch, it's just a lie.

Carbon removal credits are nonsense from a functional standpoint although bureaucratically they're amazing. All it says is this company dumped money at a product that could be placed virtually anywhere to reduce emissions and we're using that benefit to pretend the negatives of what's it's attached to don't exist.

Edit: typos

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billy_tables t1_j0nb57p wrote

It's not zero emissions, it's biomass - the carbon was originally captured by the plant material. Exact same as rapeseed oil vehicles, which are carbon neutral

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Vencaslac t1_j0mjrrh wrote

the carbon in cooking oil comes from the athmoaphere where it's absorbed from by plants so the only way it's not net zero is because the equipment used in farming/production is likely not net zero... beats the hell out of fossil oil tho

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ElJamoquio t1_j0nfmld wrote

Enormous amounts of diesel are used in the production of fertilizer alone.

There's no way it's 'net zero', and they're insulting our intelligence when they lie to us about it.

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billy_tables t1_j0mwry1 wrote

It's ultimately biomass though; plants suck carbon out of the air, then we burn the stuff that we squeeze out of the plants, and return the same carbon back into the air

As opposed to fossil fuels where we suck it out of the ground and burn it into the air

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Cesum-Pec t1_j0n6c9l wrote

Well if the plants are planted, grown, harvested, transported, processed, transported, used as fryer oil, stored, transported, reprocessed, transported, stored, and then used to fuel the plane without fossil fuels, it's net zero. So...maybe?

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billy_tables t1_j0naxmp wrote

By that measure Nuclear is a fossil fuel because of the diesel used to transport it, electricity used to refine it, and concrete used to entomb the waste, and tidal power is a fossil fuel because of the diesel ships that have to deploy and maintain the equipment

It's fair to say the supply chain will have its own carbon footprint, but if burning the fuel only releases carbon that was originally in the atmosphere, that means net zero to me

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Cesum-Pec t1_j0nbjgi wrote

No, bad analogy. Plant based fuels, which I endorse to a degree, require continuous inputs of fossil fuels at every step, which I was trying to demonstrate with the supply chain. Nuke fuels produce WAY more energy than the fossil fuels needed to get that system started. Nukes could power an electric maintenance fleet, plant fuels can not.

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billy_tables t1_j0ndmmt wrote

You’re saying it takes more fossil fuel emissions to fly this plane from LHR-JFK with plant fuel than it would to fly it with Jet A?

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ElJamoquio t1_j0nfdeq wrote

Your line of questioning really moves the goalposts. It's not net zero, even if it's a 50% reduction in CO2. It's taking in 100 units of CO2, along with 50 units of CO2 in transportation, fertilizer, etc. So it's a net of -50 thus far. It then outputs 100 units of CO2. So we're still worse off.

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billy_tables t1_j0nhjb5 wrote

Worse off than not flying - but not worse off than Jet A? There is a 100% reduction in CO2 emissions from the fuel burn, so all that’s left to compare is the fossil fuel consumption of the Jet A and Plant based supply chains.

Those are nothing to do with the fuel itself - in countries with a 100% nuclear energy grid that would be 0. In the U.K. we were 60% renewable today, by the time this fuel is meant to be mainstream here (2050) that will be 100%

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Cesum-Pec t1_j0nym74 wrote

>You’re saying it takes more fossil fuel emissions to fly this plane from LHR-JFK with plant fuel than it would to fly it with Jet A?

No. It's a good reduction in carbon emissions, but it's no where close to net zero.

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ElJamoquio t1_j0nesrq wrote

> Well if the plants are planted, grown, harvested, transported, processed, transported, used as fryer oil, stored, transported, reprocessed, transported, stored, and then used to fuel the plane without fossil fuels, it's net zero. So...

So... ...not a flocking chance.

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screwswithshrews t1_j0o3uph wrote

Also, wouldn't this used cooking oil just decompose into CO2 in a dump somewhere otherwise? Isn't it net zero because you're not pulling carbon from deep below the surface and putting it into the atmosphere?

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quikfrozt t1_j0lkflz wrote

Yeah there is a lack of a global standard that is scientifically proven and enforced

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summerfr33ze t1_j0o1923 wrote

Well there would be no need for the term "net zero" at all if all we were talking about were using fuel that produced zero carbon emissions. The "spurious" accounting is where the term comes from.

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