Submitted by manual_tranny t3_ztplap in Futurology
Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1utuas wrote
Reply to comment by Tree-farmer2 in All I want for Christmas is 400 GW of solar installed in 2023 by manual_tranny
Ohhh, I thought you were making a good faith mistake. My apologies, I didn't realise you were trying to concern troll.
The reason is because it wasn't cheaper when they were built. That feedback loop is only just closing now. But by a shocking coincidence that couldn't possibly be related, that's also where the good solar and wind resource in the country is.
As of a few years ago 5 of the 5 largest solar parks in the world were in the same region.
Now there are a fair few bigger ones in some other areas.
...which are all also building multi GW polysilicon facilities nearby.
Tree-farmer2 t1_j1v3a9s wrote
>Ohhh, I thought you were making a good faith mistake. My apologies, I didn't realise you were trying to concern troll.
Well that's condescending...
Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1x2tew wrote
If you don't want to be condescended to, then don't copy-paste frossil fuel propaganda from shellenberger.org and pretend you've contributed something original or positive.
Tree-farmer2 t1_j1xyycp wrote
A lot of the world's polysilicon is made with coal by slaves in Xinjiang. It's not propaganda and kind of weird you deny it.
Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1y0gua wrote
Your pathetic slimy tactics of trying to shift the narrative are completely transparent. If it's a problem then buy some of the 50% of panels available outside China that have no silicon from xinjiang. Or support the 10s of GW of plant being built everywhere on the planet rather than fighting to keep coal relevant.
Go work in Yining uranium mine until you die of lung cancer.
Tree-farmer2 t1_j1z2ni1 wrote
Your life must be pretty sad.
Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1z2xto wrote
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.” ― Jean-Paul Sartre
Tree-farmer2 t1_j1zjuh7 wrote
You lack self-awareness. You brush off concerns about enslaved Uyghers and then compare me to a racist to try to claim some moral high ground. Sure.
Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1zlj8i wrote
I called out your slimy tactics of poiting out a political issue as if it were a technical issue and that you're pretending that the majority of uranium mining doesn't have the exact same problems (except that there is a long documented history of intentionally misleading native people and putting them into uranium mines with no PPE and poisoning their land rather than just being in an area where exploitation is happening and is putting no effort into stopping it) and you followed the pattern to a tee.
Tree-farmer2 t1_j1zok7i wrote
>you're pretending that the majority of uranium mining doesn't have the exact same problems
I don't recall uranium being part of the discussion but slavery? There's none I know of but maybe it exists somewhere.
And there were problems with uranium mining but this was at the dawn of the Cold War and mostly for weapons production.
Today there are still problems with China's uranium mining in Namibia. This is <10% of global production and a symptom of a bigger problem with China and not representative of the rest of the industry.
Human_Anybody7743 t1_j1zqw23 wrote
> I don't recall uranium being part of the discussion but slavery? There's none I know of but maybe it exists somewhere.
Oh I just assumed seeing as you were running the standard fossil fuel wE nEeD NuClEaR grift that you'd said it already. If you were just concern trolling with nothing positive to contribute then you're just skipping that step and going straight for keeping the oh so slavery free fossil fuel industry around without the pretense.
There's the exact same level of evidence for Uranium miningnslavery as polysilicon. Coal and oil powered regions with high slavery index exporting the product. Applies to Uzbekistan, Niger, and Turkmenistan at least. And then there's the nice men from Rio Tinto that hold on to your passport for you if you're a migrant laborer in Australia and give you a place to stay for only 80% of your wage, and basic services for 30% of your wage and will only fly you home if you pay the debt off. If your proposed alternative is fossil fuels then there's plenty worse than that in the world.
> And there were problems with uranium mining but this was at the dawn of the Cold War and mostly for weapons production.
> Today there are still problems with China's uranium mining in Namibia. This is <10% of global production and a symptom of a bigger problem with China and not representative of the rest of the industry.
Huh. So you're saying political problems aren't an inherent part of a technology and can be addressed? Almost exactly like the EU and US are doing right now? Almost like this topic only came up as a reactionary attempt at a Gish Gallop immediately after your other lie was refuted in spite of you knowing this.
Funny how that goes the exact same way every time.
Tree-farmer2 t1_j243pay wrote
>There's the exact same level of evidence for Uranium miningnslavery as polysilicon.
Evidence?
>And then there's the nice men from Rio Tinto that hold on to your passport for you if you're a migrant laborer in Australia and give you a place to stay for only 80% of your wage, and basic services for 30% of your wage and will only fly you home if you pay the debt off.
This is a criticism of mining in general. Solar is actually the most mining-intensive way to make a kWh.
I'm not opposed to solar, though I'd prefer see it on rooftops rather than encroaching on nature. I understand some portion of the world's energy will come from solar but it bothers me when people extrapolate it to 100% with no concern about reliability or land and materials use. Nuclear needs to be included and even the IEA says:
>Nuclear power should play a significant role in helping meet net-zero goals globally, and building clean energy systems will be harder, riskier and more expensive without nuclear >https://www.power-eng.com/nuclear/iea-build-more-nuclear-to-meet-net-zero-goals/
Human_Anybody7743 t1_j246vk1 wrote
> This is a criticism of mining in general. Solar is actually the most mining-intensive way to make a kWh.
Anything to back that up that isn't an LCA of a decade old system of a completely different chemistry with 1/4 of the efficiency on a heavy 2 axis tracking rig?
> I'm not opposed to solar, though I'd prefer see it on rooftops rather than encroaching on nature. I understand some portion of the world's energy will come from solar but it bothers me when people extrapolate it to 100% with no concern about reliability or land and materials use.
Solar is the least materials heavy and least land consuming energy source other than gas. 20-50t of silver and 40-80t of lead per net GW are the only mining intensive materials, and both are dropping rapidly.
https://www.vdma.org/international-technology-roadmap-photovoltaic
> Nuclear needs to be included and even the IEA says:
Needing a few GW of nuclear in a handful of countries wouldn't support any of your arguments even if the IEA hadn't been consistently wrong about the role of renewables for the last 15 years to the point where at times they've "projected" 2050 costs and deployment rates to be lower than the rates when their projections were published.
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