Submitted by Hypx t3_10mdti7 in Futurology
TheAnonFeels t1_j63xoe5 wrote
Reply to comment by Hypx in Cryo-compressed hydrogen, the best solution for storage and refueling stations? by Hypx
Sure, hydrogen can dissipate quickly..
It can also ignite faster. Fill the area around or in a car in under a second, it wont dissipate fast enough.. You could argue it would dissipate oxygen too, but it'll already get mixed with the air before that happens. All it takes is a ignition point before the gas can dissipate, and there would be no fire, because there would be no car left.
Hypx OP t1_j65ckam wrote
It's lighter than air. It won't stay very long. And no, that's not how a hydrogen flame would work.
TheAnonFeels t1_j65kgay wrote
Video 1: That's like one i commented earlier, where it burns straight up from under the driver seat, thanks for the laugh again.
Anyway, video 1: That's only if it's ignited as it vents, they didn't give the gas time to vent without a flame cause...explosion.
Video 2: Most of these are Liquid hydrogen which acts much more safe than gaseous hydrogen as countless people have pointed out.
If you can, point me to a segment that is gaseous hydrogen.
For clarity, yet again, liquid hydrogen stays liquid until i can get enough heat to vaporize. Also, because of that, it doesn't mix with air well.
We don't drive hydrogen cars with liquid hydrogen, its difficult to work with, being cryo.
Brings me to the part of Video 2 where they show what happens when hydrogen mixes with air: https://youtu.be/7bFJK5kU_UQ?t=443
TheAnonFeels t1_j65m1qt wrote
Here's a balloon full of hydrogen in a cardboard box, gaseous.
Hypx OP t1_j65mak5 wrote
It most likely won’t ignite at all even when vented. There needs to be an ignition source. In most cases, the hydrogen just dissipates completely.
You’re simply ignoring the other side of the video: What happens when a gasoline cars catches on fire. That is significantly more dangerous. And we already accept that danger. It’s pointless to fearmonger about something less dangerous.
TheAnonFeels t1_j65o4cp wrote
I'm not fear mongering but you're ignoring the other side too... I'm ignoring the gasoline cars because we're all accustomed to it.
What do you mean most likely wont ignite?????? Hydrogen is the single most dangerous gaseous atom we have.
Ignition source? crashes are full of them, what about the gasoline fire from the car that hit you? Or the time you open kick your door open and it scrapes the pavement making a spark? roads, garages, and crashes are full of ignition sources..
I just see us having a car sitting in a garage overnight, and a switch turns on, or a natural gas furnace kicks on and the building is gone.
I'm all for the attempt at hydrogen vehicles, but i don't see it as a fix all. I wouldn't drive one, hell i dislike my gasoline powered car. But you gotta accept that hydrogen can ignite after mixing. That balloon video ignited after mixing, how do you think a ruptured tank is going to look?
Hypx OP t1_j65ovnu wrote
You still need an ignition source for a fire. Not to mention how fast it leaves the vehicle. It also doesn’t explode. You are basically ignoring the videos and substituting your own imagination here.
A balloon isn’t a fuel tank. It is already premixed with air. Even sugar will explode in the right setting.
Again, it is safer than gasoline. This is not a debate anymore. The evidence already made this clear.
TheAnonFeels t1_j65q39q wrote
Did you not read my responses to those videos? about how they're all LIQUID hydrogen? Which is completely different...
We have 15k hydrogen vehicles on the road, yes. And their tanks can withstand the harshest impacts. I get this. I get their safer, but the catastrophic failures of gasoline vs hydrogen are completely different. And these will happen. Hydrogen is the leakiest material we have, and ever will have.
My only point through ALL of this, has been about how you keep talking about liquid nitrogen and don't understand the difference.
It doesn't explode?!
Hydrogen can explode.
Wanted to drop some stats before you stopped listening, but here they are anyway.
Gasoline flamability limits in sea level atmosphere: 1.4%-7.6% (cannot ignite outside that)
Hydrogen: 4%-75%
Detonability of hydrogen in air are 18.3% to 59% by volume.
Hypx OP t1_j65qi2x wrote
Again, you need an ignition source. And for an explosion you need a proper fuel mix. In reality, it will just float away immediately in most cases. A fire would hardly be dangerous compared to what a gasoline fire looks like. You're entirely ignoring actual data.
Like I said, you are just fearmongering. You already are in more danger driving a regular car.
TheAnonFeels t1_j65r41w wrote
dude, really.. Stop for a second.. A proper fuel mix?
Detonability of hydrogen in air are 18.3% to 59% by volume. There's the fuel mix for an detonation. Explosion is 4% to 75% ...
You're ignoring my entire comment.
Hypx OP t1_j65re8i wrote
And it's all just bullshit. Hydrogen is lighter than air. It doesn't have time to stay mixed. It's literally what they showed in the video.
Like I said, you are substituting reality with your own imagination here.
TheAnonFeels t1_j65s3op wrote
I've said multiple times that's liquid hydrogen.
My own imagination here is that i can convince you my only point here was telling you hydrogen COULD ignite...
Not saying hydrogen cars are more dangerous or less.
Not saying gasoline is safer.
I've only given you facts about hydrogen and how it could possibly ignite in a crash, you keep denying time and time again. Because of those videos, which again, were liquid nitrogen, the only gaseous hydrogen they showed was in a ball tank that..exploded.
Listen, i don't care what is safer, i feel its too early to tell, and so far they're doing great. I'm waiting for when the rare event happens that levels peoples homes comes up. Until this conversation i was under the impression that no way would people park these in garages but that opinion has changed.
Hypx OP t1_j65tes6 wrote
If you are admitting that gasoline is not safer, then what's the point of this conversation?
TheAnonFeels t1_j65tzxh wrote
Not admitting anything is safer...(Last paragraph of latest comment, if you forgot already)
The point?
- My own imagination here is that i can convince you my only point here was telling you hydrogen COULD ignite...
idek what to say anymore.. You literally aren't comprehending anything i type, even just conversational statements... This is so difficult to repeat myself and now I learn you still don't know my point...
I honestly wish, I wish so hard, my brain was like yours. Life would be easy.
Hypx OP t1_j65und1 wrote
Then your posts are total gibberish. You are trying to say something while admitting that you aren't trying to make a point at all.
There is nothing to comprehend in your posts. It's just word spam.
TheAnonFeels t1_j65ve6x wrote
>Then your posts are total gibberish.
Is it that hard to understand?
The comment I first made, was only talking about ignition, you keep telling me i'm against hydrogen cars.. I keep going back to informing you hydrogen can ignite, and dangerously.
I see where you got confused.. You thought i was conflicting with your world image.
Hypx OP t1_j65vug4 wrote
Which is stuff I admitted from the very first post. Yes, it can ignite. With an ignition source. Yes, it is dangerous, but less so than gasoline.
But of course you went off with multiple posts of pure spam and fearmongering before admitting that there is no real danger.
You're plainly trolling at this point. Time to stop and move on.
TheAnonFeels t1_j65xrbn wrote
Sorry we couldn't have an actual conversation but seems you don't know how.
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