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UniversalMomentum t1_j63ckjc wrote

Anybody who thinks globalism would go away anytime soon has lost their mind. Globalism will be around about as long as we need global trade, which is probably forever.

Globalism doesn't just mean you make stuff in other countries. In many cases to compete in a region you have to build infrastructure there. To sell you commodities you need a 'commodity plant' and the logistics of having the processing plant near the materials and customers doesn't change all that much even with unlimited automation. You will always have globalism because you will always have modern trade and manufacturing and they will dictate these shared mutual development scenarios.

You want resource X, long term you probably have to give the source country a share of the industry, it's not an especially complicated idea and it's not going away.

It's also the single biggest form of wealth redistribution and normalization of massive wealth difference between nations. There has been no greater charity to the developed world in all human history than opening up the doors of globalism to break off the shackles of having developing nations closely tied to developed nations, which is how we did it before globalization and just meant more global poverty.

Isolationists may like it, but the end result is lower global GDP growth and that does come back to haunt the developed nations too in less of that awesome developed market growth where you see the biggest profit margins still. You also lose global influence with less global trade and industrial cooperate, which is all globalism means.

To be against globalism is basically to be against global trade and it's a rather ridiculous position. It's right up there with trying to blame thousands of years of human greed on capitalism. Like humans need capitalism to be greedy! We don't even need language to be greedy! We are greed incarnate!

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Surur t1_j63n2df wrote

> It's also the single biggest form of wealth redistribution and normalization of massive wealth difference between nations.

This is what people object against really, but it should be obvious that a making poor nations richer makes everyone safer, in the same way making people in a poor part of a city richer helps everyone be safer.

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mhornberger t1_j69hduh wrote

> it should be obvious that a making poor nations richer makes everyone safer

I think the problem there is that many romanticize poverty, at least poverty of others. If only it wasn't for the corrupting influences of advertising and television and whatnot, the theory goes, these people would be content and happy with their subsistence agriculture. It's just a slightly updated version of the Noble Savage myth.

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YawnTractor_1756 t1_j66rwtq wrote

>making poor nations richer makes everyone safer

I grew up next to a country that went from very poor to doing pretty darn well within short 20 years. That large country then proceeded to perform a full-scale invasion on the neighbor.

What I am saying, is that maybe that is not exactly how it works. If nation's wealth is built by honest work and evolution of society and institutions, then sure. But if a nation just stroke random gold, then there is far less correlation between richer and safer.

And forced redistribution of wealth from the rich countries to the poorer ones, that is not coupled with natural or forced institutions and society building, will not achieve good results.

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Surur t1_j67pjfb wrote

Quite true. I assume you mean Russia, but it could be so many another countries.

But this is why for example exporting businesses is better than extractive economies, as it relies more on the existence of good governance and citizen prosperity in a country.

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ribblle t1_j64cy8f wrote

At the moment it's making them richer. At the moment.

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Surur t1_j64jr1l wrote

And whether those countries invest that money into ongoing development is up to them.

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sir_Edguhhh t1_j63cxqm wrote

Mfs really be like “cHiNa Is dOne iN tHe nExT 10 years” like wtf none of the things those people say make sense . I feel like this conspiracy theory is just a pump nd dump

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Cuck-In-Chief t1_j65ccem wrote

China has a lot of unique headwinds. A population bomb, an authoritarian regime that has consolidated the most power in one man since Mao, ghost cities of shit infrastructure, along with a mortgage process that is slanted against individual owners and values that don’t correspond with investment. Also their constant regional bullying and crazy Covid restrictions have underscored the need for alternative markets in SE Asia. They have a lot of sectors that could go tits-up in the next decade. The odds of China in 10 years looking anything like China now is slim. Likely it won’t be a favorable transformation.

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Dsstar666 t1_j64ze0t wrote

100% agree with you outside your last two sentences. Most people aren't greedy to the level you're describing. The problem is our systems reward the greediest. Thus, that's all we see. Thus, that's all we think we are. We're not greed incarnate. But we are still genetically wired as if we're fighting mammoths during the Ice Age. So it tends to make a lot of us horde and be selfish with resources. That's not greed necessarily. It's survival instincts in a world that no longer requires that level of self-preservation (Mostly). Its the same reason for xenophobia.

Nor is it something that is specifically Human. All animals are inherently greedy and selfish. Because the jungle is killed or be killed and you never know when your next meal will come. Hell, I have hummingbird feeders. Multiple. Always full. But one hummingbird, who was the first to show up, constantly fights any new approacher, despite that there is obviously enough to go around.

Idk why I went on this rant. But reddit is almost exclusively a self hate, nihilistic, "we shouldn't exist", "all humans suck" tirade, so I try to put my two cents every now and then. (This wasn't aimed at you. Loved your post) so I expect this to get downvoted to hell. goes back to drinking tea

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Test19s t1_j65fgp1 wrote

Bonobos are not particularly selfish although they do engage in some unnecessary predation, but I do think it’s amazing what humanity has been able to come up with and I still have some hope that we can improve the flawed natural universe to be a bit more cooperative.

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Nightgaun7 t1_j63mhla wrote

Being against globalism isn't ridiculous. It might be a difficult position to maintain, but that's not the same thing.

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FullM3TaLJacK3T t1_j63z45m wrote

The fact that our phone/laptop/tablet has parts made in India, China Taiwan, US and possible other countries is as a result of globalisation. Being against globalisation, in my opinion, is next to impossible nowadays, because even if you choose to shun technology and use pen/pencil, those would still be made elsewhere!

Unless one decides to be hypocritical, be against globalisation, but yet embrace their nice tech gadgets being cheap.

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Rainbows871 t1_j645d0i wrote

You disagree with society yet participate in it, I am very intelligent

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Hoarfrosty t1_j65x1h0 wrote

Man, I’m so glad you pointed out capitalism doesn’t cause greed. I’m a lefty, but I love the capitalism/ socialism hybrid we have. The ethics, regulation, and enforcement issues cause the problems. Not the idea of using capital to invest for returns.

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YawnTractor_1756 t1_j66ql48 wrote

>Globalism will be around about as long as we need global trade, which is probably forever.

It would be a shame if there was a time in history when global trade existed fine without politics of globalism, for such precedent would completely shatter this line of thinking...

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TheLastSamurai t1_j65csh6 wrote

Well that’s what’s happening. America is in a struggle against BRICS for currency dominance, energy independence, and pole position of leading economy. You’re right it’s actually worse for us all, but the US govt wants to be adversarial with China, as do most on Reddit

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giveuporfindaway t1_j671ngl wrote

Wondering if you've heard of Peter Zeihan. In particular you can see his book "The End of the World Is Just the Beginning: Mapping the Collapse of Globalization". He is personally in favor of globalism but he does believe globalism is going away. Some of his reasons why include:

- The US navy no longer has the class of ships to ensure global policing in international waterways. This requires about 700 destroyers and we have about 60ish.

- With the absence of the US navy policing international waters, piracy will increase, which will make long supply chains unstable.

- A majority of countries that participated in globalization by supplying cheap labor essentially had a generational surplus of agrarian labor that moved into cities. This same generation did not have children at replacement levels. Most of these countries are in demographic collapse. China is the best example of this. So essentially they had a one time advantageous ticket to spend and its been spent.

- The United States is natural powerhouse in manufacturing and can produce many things cheaper than many other countries. The only reason manufacturing hasn't entirely returned is due to the sunken cost in other countries.

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DropsTheMic t1_j675vxr wrote

Agreed, who thought globalization was going anywhere? Did the internet shut down when I wasn't looking? Did word wide commerce stop at some point?...

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Rumblestillskin t1_j63ty2s wrote

This whole article is just complaining about how the present world conditions prevent the giant banks from making as much money. People in the West care more about democracy and freedom than making sure their richest can be sure to be able to get richer.

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ribblle t1_j64dh51 wrote

They care more, but are they more concerned about it?

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jimbojonesforyou t1_j658y7x wrote

The anti-globalization crowd is really delusional. Many of them live in places that are disconnected from the rest of the country and the world. Conservatives have this idea that the US obtained absolute economic and social perfection in the 1950s and if we just elect the right politicians they can and will take us back to the post war era. Many people believe that the post war boom should last forever, that's just how things should be, we all should be able to have a giant home in the suburbs with a giant lawn and two clunkers in the garage and we should be able to afford that with a GED starting when we are 18 by going to work in some factory or warehouse or mine. They think if we elect the right Conservatives then they can and will reverse globalization and suddenly we all live in 1954 again. What they don't realize is that globalization is much more than just factory jobs sent to Mexico or China. Everything we do every day is the result of international commerce and intermingling of business and culture across borders and oceans. Globalization is in our banks, real estate, media, tech companies, pharmaceuticals, medicine, education, government, energy, everything from weed edibles to cat food to sex and in-between. We aren't going back to the 1950s. The reason globalization didn't happen sooner is because after WW2 our economic competition was literally blown apart and others were under the rule of socialism and we barely had any competition in manufacturing, construction, and services. Only people who have never left their hometown suburb actually believe that we are going to get back to pre-globalization economics.

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Vucea OP t1_j63arq6 wrote

The re-globalisation glimpsed in Davos will be fundamentally different from previous iterations

For the past decade, the steady demise of ‘Davos Man’ – the avatar of global business and cosmopolitanism – was the big story here, owing to the 2008 financial crisis, Brexit, Donald Trump’s election, democratic backsliding around the world, covid-19, and Russia’s war in Ukraine. All were seen as signs that globalisation had gone too far and would be thrown into reverse.

But the mood at this year’s meeting was slightly more optimistic. Despite much concern about conflict and economic strife, the world seems to be doing a little better than global elites expected when they last met in May. The Ukrainians are valiantly resisting the Russian invaders, the West is united, Europe has managed to keep the lights on this winter, and some think we might still avoid a recession.

Moreover, beneath these important short-term developments is a more profound shift toward a new form of globalisation, albeit one that will be quite different from what preceded it. While the globalisation of goods seems to have peaked, services are becoming ever more globalised, owing to the revolution in telework during the pandemic.

There is also an accelerating revolution in energy, driven partly by the war in Ukraine. European Commission president, Ursula von der Leyen, and Germany’s chancellor, Olaf Scholz, predict that the widespread adoption of renewables and hydrogen power will be as significant as the industrial revolution of the 19th century.

At the same time, advances in artificial intelligence (AI) are opening vast new possibilities, while also creating tensions over microchips and renewed fears about joblessness and rogue robots.

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frequenttimetraveler t1_j63gm81 wrote

More true than not. The deglobalization team seems to want the world to go back to 1979, with cold war in full rage and all the money being spent to defense projects. But I m not sure that nationalist idea is particularly popular today. Even long-standing neutral countries like Switzerland and the Scandis are no longer neutral but willing to defend this US-led globalized order. And it make sense why

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AloofPenny t1_j63ofla wrote

It is. Tech routes are changing. “Real men have fabs” is what countries are saying now. Because it doesn’t take a nuclear weapon to destroy your enemies when technology does it so much cleaner.

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Jaded-Protection-402 t1_j64lk9h wrote

Read up on "singleton hypothesis" by philosopher Nick Bostrom. Basically, he predicts that human societies will eventually form a "singleton" - whether it's a single government or an AI that runs everything. The outcome could be good or bad depending on various factors. Bostrom argues that we've been trending towards higher levels of social organization throughout history and that technology, including mind-control tech, could play a role in creating a singleton.

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ovirt001 t1_j66my3s wrote

Globalism can work between democracies. In time politicians will realize this and exclude dictatorships.

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zoot_boy t1_j67exul wrote

Add in the shift in wealth and it gets really dark, really quick.

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farticustheelder t1_j6aikhn wrote

Can we remember that globalization is the result of increased international trade which itself was the search for cheaper wages (higher profits)?

I like the good bits of globalization and I don't like the bad bits. So let's keep the good bits and trash the rest.

First the big trend today is localism. It starts with rooftop solar and doesn't stretch very far out of town. Fairly soon all the power feeding cities will come from about 100 miles from city center. That is 100% generation, storage, and consumption is local. All that money stays in the local economy sparking economic growth.

My city (Toronto) is surrounded by local farming aimed at keeping us feed with good seasonal produce, local dairy, and regional meats, and poultry. Pretty soon vertical farms will start displacing all that produce imported from across the continent. Lab grown protein from stem cells will displace all imported meats except for the high end foodie bits.

When we toss in wide spread 3D printing we run into the 'make it where you use it' meme. You just download the file and print what you want where you want it. Since good atoms are forever you just need good recycling to keep making new stuff and unmaking old stuff.

The end result, as I see it, is a return to something like the Hanseatic League mixed up other city state eras. We have already seen that large cities have more in common with each other than with the countries they find themselves in.

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Ph0enixRuss3ll t1_j63mfft wrote

I'd like to see one world government; it could start with the UN getting more and more power until they run things.

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Rainbows871 t1_j645mpo wrote

If the world were a democracy gay rights would be globally banned over night

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Ph0enixRuss3ll t1_j64624u wrote

I doubt it. Most heterosexuals are happy when others find love be it gay or straight. All homophobes are closet homos who hate themselves.

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Rainbows871 t1_j6469cq wrote

Ah, I see you have never left San Francisco

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Ph0enixRuss3ll t1_j646ghi wrote

I've seen enough of the world to know only trash who don't know how to love are the ones who try and shame those who do

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Rainbows871 t1_j64712c wrote

Very poetic, 45 million militantly Catholic Ugandans are still going outvote American liberals about making bum sex a death penalty

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Ph0enixRuss3ll t1_j647mw6 wrote

Well too bad for them because democracy is not to vote how people live their private lives. We need more socialism some places and more libertarianism some places. And no death penalty ever. Some people deserve life in prison; no government deserves the right to kill. These "Christians" involved is mob revenge murder make me sick. Witch hunt death penalty is literally what killed Jesus.

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JimmyTimmyatwork3 t1_j65h8sy wrote

Yeah but he was dead for what, like 2 days...did he really die for our sins?

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Ph0enixRuss3ll t1_j65oznj wrote

Don't know; don't care. I'm Buddhist. Life is about finding peace in truth and truth in peace; not about begging for forgiveness.

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AloofPenny t1_j63oqn2 wrote

The un is literally made up of a bunch of the worlds governments. So you propose….this continues? You’re actually for this?

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Ph0enixRuss3ll t1_j63pogg wrote

Let's say we socialize education for equal opportunity to earn privilege; move healthy competition from companies to individuals, from schools to teachers. Teachers bettering each other and the world all over the world would be world peace. Because peace is fair competition in a trustworthy system.

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AloofPenny t1_j63qwrv wrote

The only trustworthy system is “who has nuclear bombs, and what are their motives to use them” All those warheads everyone owns, aren’t going anywhere. And until we resolve the motivations for using weapons to solve our problems, this “one world government” will remain bullshit. Am I screaming that capitalism is better? No. But at least we get the illusion of choice.

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Ph0enixRuss3ll t1_j63t512 wrote

I really hope I don't live to see a nuclear war: either die in the first bomb or it just not happen. The world uniting against a common threat would be one way to do it. But are people really so terrible that we can't see any threat if it's not a foreign threat? What about domestic threats like politicians who lie and people who don't have enough self respect to demand the truth?

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AloofPenny t1_j63uk0g wrote

This is a people problem. Let people fix it. When he wanted to sell books, bezos had a bunch of money and tuned it into …ta-da….. a marketplace. “Oh I wish Fiverr existed!” “If only YouTube were free!?” You got me on healthcare though, that one balks at the thought of being reined in.

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Ph0enixRuss3ll t1_j63wlvu wrote

Socialized education that prioritizes experience: a person move from medical assistant, to nurse, to doctor. It's perfectly fine for doctors to be fiercely competitive; not fine for them to be capitalist monsters selling treatments rather than providing cures.

Socialize emergency Healthcare because negotiation under duress is extortion. Let people have free hospital stays to recover; only cost being the time they take away from their work.

Free the drug market for safer recreational drugs and cheaper medicinal drugs. Let people not in hospital decide for themselves what's medicine and pay for it themselves.

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Internauta29 t1_j64thq3 wrote

That's the end goal eventually, but I'd rather not. I already dislike the standardisation if nany aspects of life due to globalisation, I don't want many more to be added to that liat due to a single government.

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Ph0enixRuss3ll t1_j64uy8m wrote

I love moving cities and still being close to a Petsmart and Target. I don't love how capitalism capitalizes on labor rather than values people; profits are unpaid worker's wages.

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