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robsommerfeldt t1_j8ora2u wrote

Our entire society needs to do something about this.


abrandis t1_j8oyyrb wrote

But we won't , it's too expensive and frankly mental health is considered a side issue since it's out of sight out of mind for most folks . I suspect that probably half of the homeless with me tal issue probably could live a normal life if they received regular treatment and had a support system and weren't thrown to the whims of capitalism.


PhiliChez t1_j8qyq82 wrote

As a socialist, I intend to do worker co-ops about it. With enough co-ops, close enough cooperation, and imagination, they might be able to create a pipeline out of homelessness. And capitalism.


americanextreme t1_j8ox0dg wrote

I was in NYC in September. I was amazed at how few homeless there were and how clean the city was, compared to where I live. From Manhattan to Brooklyn to the Bronx to Queens, I was impressed with how under control they had the houseless problem, relative to Portland, OR.


mile-high-guy t1_j8oxkoc wrote

Yeah, the city isn't spotlessly clean but I really only see a few in the subways, not like tent cities in the west. Maybe I just didn't go to the right area. But they aren't as visible here (NYC)


americanextreme t1_j8oypz3 wrote

We have a new location proposed for a new Tent City. The NIMBY crowd is like “That’s right across from a school. Are you going to make sure residents are checked to not be on the SOR?” The Houseless-First crowd is like “That’s too close to train tracks, we need locations with great access to transportation and services that are centrally located that don’t have noise, light or smell pollution.” While the Coty Planners are like “I’m going to need to pay another couple million to my friends to consult on another location if this one is going to fall through.”


wheresbill t1_j8ot6td wrote

So, the city needs to do something about it so you’re not uncomfortable? My heart goes out to you


Heap_Good_Firewater t1_j8owx5h wrote

The city needs to do something so that tourists and businesses don't flee the city. The city needs to do something to help the homeless.

Leaving insane drug addicts alone to fend for themselves is not "empowering". It's cruel.


shortyman920 t1_j8oyz17 wrote

There hasn’t been any drop in businesses or tourism due to homeless. If it has its due to remote work and covid. Unfortunately this has become an ‘accepted’ part of the city and society. Any solution that comes for this probably needs federal gov intervention. Because if NYC fixes it, other cities will send their homeless to nyc.


kmurph72 t1_j8ot6rj wrote

We went through this in the 70s and 80s. We had state run facilities, homes and hospitals for the mentally ill. In the late 80s the media started reporting on the bad conditions for the patients. After years of this exposure NY state and others shut down most of the system in the early 90s. This is why there is no program in place today. The reasons why are many. The biggest reason is human nature. There are probably a dozen large psychiatric hospitals that are abandoned across NY state.


Some-Ad9778 t1_j8owna4 wrote

We need a natural predator like a chupacabra or something


just-a-dreamer- t1_j8ov3jm wrote

AI cannot fix that, it is part of capitalism, thus a human flawd. Among many others. In health care, Insulin prices is another example.

In practical terms, the housing problem was solved 60 years ago with prefab manufacturing. Anything from concrete building blocks to baracks is dirt cheap to assamble on the spot.

Land is also plentifull. In the capitalist system, for there to be income from assets, there must be artificial scarcity in goods though.

Thus there are homeless people camping next to 1 million Dollar houses. If zoning laws get eradicated and governments start construction, property values would be cut in half fast as an example.


Sol_Hando t1_j8owo4r wrote

In NYC, there’s affordable housing available to the homeless for as little as $100 a month. There are requirements though, such as not having an active drug addiction and being willing to work a government job if you’re physically able. The NYC homeless population is mostly people who don’t fall into this category, either drug addicts or the severely mentally ill.

Building a ton of pre-fab housing in middle of nowhere land is not the solution to homelessness, as proper maintenance and care would need to be applied for the housing and neighborhood as a whole to continue existing. People who end up homeless are usually those least able to maintain their own homes and function in an affordable housing community.


just-a-dreamer- t1_j8oyr8q wrote

Why would there be any requirements? If people want to do drugs, that is their business. Their (short) life, their choices. Same is true for work or rejection thereof.

A 20 store assembled concrete building full of small appartments will suffice. The most functional inhabitans can be employed part time for basic maintance operations.

It's weird that people accept homeless lying on the streets causing all sorts problems, yet are outraged at the mere thought of free housing and no work requirements. Why would you care? The homeless guy is not working anyway.

Housing is dirt cheap on a basic level. As is food and clothing. It does not take much in resources to house, feed and cloth human beings.

As AI approaches the "outrage" about bums not working will probably fade, for the majority will be out of a job too in short order.


Sol_Hando t1_j8ozrdd wrote

I’ve volunteered for these exact affordable housing projects in NYC, and the requirements aren’t there out of any sense of people making their own choices.

Drug addicts endanger the apartment block as a whole, and are exceedingly more likely to cause serious damage to the housing. You shouldn’t only consider those who are currently homeless, but those people who are legitimately working to improve their situation or those who face too low wages.

The idea of a requirement-free homeless shelter has been tried many times. It almost always fails spectacularly, with the housing being destroyed ruining the lives of those who “behave”. If you had ANY experience with this you would know that.


FLORI_DUH t1_j8p2ceo wrote

How naive can you be? It sounds like youve never met a homeless person in your life.


just-a-dreamer- t1_j8p46u5 wrote

The point is that I don't want to meet one ever. It shall not exist.

I don't care if people do drugs or overdose, don't work, do nothin all day. It is cheap to provide housing, food, clothing. Relative to productivity levels it costs next no nothing.

Let people live their lifes as long or short as they see fit.


FLORI_DUH t1_j8p4jt3 wrote

You should try volunteering at a shelter or soup kitchen sometime. Even one day would probably be enough to learn that funding someone's drug addiction is actually quite cruel. It's not about what it costs us, it's about what it costs them.


just-a-dreamer- t1_j8p6jw3 wrote

Cost them? They die anyway on the streets. I would rather die under a roof, we give dogs and cats such comfort, but not our fellow men.

It's none of my business if somebody wishes to be high all day, at one point I would even make sure drugs of choice are clean and safe to use.

We already have reached the level of productivity to see all our basic needs met at low costs in terms of required manpower/working hours.


FLORI_DUH t1_j8p76sl wrote

I'm glad you don't have any deadbeat drug addicts in your life. Keep on dreaming.


Heap_Good_Firewater t1_j8ox5zd wrote

>it is part of capitalism

If it were, then all capitalist countries would have this problem. Homelessness barely exists in places like Sweden and Denmark.


odetothefireman t1_j8oziti wrote

Ah, white utopia


Heap_Good_Firewater t1_j8p1wap wrote

So only white people can have good social policies? Bold statement.

Japan has the lowest homeless rate in the world, BTW.


odetothefireman t1_j8p68lj wrote

Everyone loves to mention the white utopia in their dream scenario


[deleted] t1_j8p84c5 wrote



odetothefireman t1_j8pfnmy wrote

You may want to go look at your comments. You mentioned Japan. I retorted with high suicide rate. I mentioned that everyone points to those 2 countries, and yet, it’s 99% white. I find it ironic.


Heap_Good_Firewater t1_j8pj1w8 wrote

Why should race make any difference?


odetothefireman t1_j8pm9x9 wrote

Because. These are the 2 countries propagated by socialists that argue these are the top tier of our goal. And yet, they can’t pint to any other place that it works.

What is the unique qualifier or difference. Homogeneity and small population. Race is simply an afterthought

Ironic, no?


Heap_Good_Firewater t1_j8poj4l wrote

Now you're making a little sense. Smaller, homogeneous population does help, "whiteness" has nothing to do with it. I would argue that high levels of social trust is the key, and this is helped by homogeneity. People are more willing to pay into a welfare system if they think it will help people like them, but this is not an insurmountable problem.

Importantly, Neither Sweden or Denmark are "socialist". They are "social democratic". Sweden outranks the US for business friendliness, competitiveness and entrepreneurship.

"Socialist" means that the workers (or the state) owns the means of production. No private ownership of any companies is allowed (East Germany, North Korea, Cuba until recently, etc.).

Sweden and Denmark derive 70-80% of their GDP from privately owned (AKA "capitalist") businesses.

The Nordic model is mostly capitalist but with a sizeable (but shrinking) state-owned sector (mostly utilities and old-school heavy industry). There are also very high marginal tax rates and a strong social safety net.


>And yet, they can’t pint to any other place that it works.

Germany has most of the same policies, and they are a large, successful, diverse country.

Where else has the Nordic Model been adopted and failed?


Note: Japan succeeded in part because of high levels of social trust and extreme homogeneity, but they stalled out because of terminal demographics. The Nordic countries did a better job of keeping birth rates up.


crankshaft123 t1_j8ovx8n wrote

Head on over to r/quityourbullshit with that nonsense.


just-a-dreamer- t1_j8owim8 wrote

A military grade camp facility is assembled within 2-4 weeks with basic ammenities. It is really dirt cheap and not rocket science.

Homelesness has nothing to do with the material inability to meet demand for housing.


Knotter87 t1_j8oyimb wrote

You are just a dreamer


just-a-dreamer- t1_j8ozq9f wrote

Yeah, imagine the army corps of engineers building housing facilities.

The trained federal professionals that run much of the infastructure of the USA and do ongoing constructiom for millions of military employees.

What a crazy thought. Upgrading a tent to a barrack facility at a bare minimum.


crankshaft123 t1_j8pv3os wrote

Are you a student? You speak as if you are.

Have you ever actually interacted with homeless people?


Mierdo01 t1_j8owmth wrote

Land is plentiful? Where? Maybe romote places with little access to necessities. Loud of bullshit


Rosieforthewin t1_j8oxbh0 wrote

The city regularly "does something" about it or the brutal cold "does something", and it generally means removing the humans making others uncomfortable by their visiblity.


FLORI_DUH t1_j8p2ubm wrote

Their visibility isn't what's making others uncomfortable. It's more the poop on the sidewalks, the public drug use, the theft, the littering, etc, etc.


Rosieforthewin t1_j8p3ad1 wrote

Visible symptoms of the root problem? I agree


FLORI_DUH t1_j8p3iie wrote

You seem to be suggesting that the root problem is people feeling uncomfortable seeing homeless. As if that's the only issue? If these Karens could just get over the sight of poverty and despair, it'd all be OK?


tcmasterson t1_j8oxi3r wrote

I live in NYC too, and we actually have a lot of resources for the homeless. New York City Department of Homeless Services (DHS) is pretty robust with a lot of programs and solutions for homeless people with different needs.

You can even call 311 to let them know if there's a person living on the street and they will come help get them connected with resources to assist them.

Extreme cases of homeless people with mental illnesses are the most visible and disruptive, but they're actually a very small percentage of the homelessness problem. But there are resources for them, they're just also the most difficult to reach.

I'm by no means an expert on DHS, but look into them they're doing pretty great work.


MPLS_Folk t1_j8oyt8y wrote

Damn, you might be onto something OP. Why has nobody ever mentioned this??


odetothefireman t1_j8ozpxy wrote

Just send a president to visit. You will be surprised how fast the city gets clean of their homeless


ascendrestore t1_j8oytvv wrote

If America was a Christian nation then people should be proud to show Jesus around all the streets of their cities to show Him how His gospel of love and concern for the poor and sick was being lived out

As this is not the case, it's a sad indictment


Material-Work-3783 t1_j8ozawx wrote

What they need to do is create homeless town .find a city in New York that has hardly anyone build tiny homes creat services that would be needed food bank Etc .


[deleted] t1_j8p1fmb wrote

Maybe if more people thought people with out a college education deserve a livable wage.


Its hopelessness.


Why work a 40 hour a week job to make just enough for a small apartment, barely any food, no extras, knowing that all it takes is one sick week or weather or you're car quits working then you are back on the street to do it all over again.


Along with no home, most jobs wont hire you with out a home address. Cant get a home address with a job. Cant afford college because no one will loan a homeless person college money. No one will load any money to someone with bad credit because of perpetual homelessness or barely making it by to go into debt over a missed bill because you had to get medicine. Cant afford Health Care because no extra money from the under livable wage job. Can't move up in any job because you have to work years at most non college, non trade school type jobs, to get to a livable wage and even then it isn't always livable.


Head Manager at a Burger King I worked at made 22$ an hour to work 80+ hours a week, be the training manager also and training store. She worked 3 years to get to that position. 3 years to make a wage that is already under livable in most of the country. Even at 22$ and all this, she tried to find other jobs that would pay her worth in resume. All the other places offered her about the same with more or less options then current. It because, as i posted in another place, we actually have people who think finding a livable wage job is easy. It is not.


I am a prior vet with 6 years of military school and 6 years of moving constantly up in my career field, 10 years in retail, 4 years in food, 4 years in other decent skill fields. 37 years old. Male. Decent shape. Cant find anyone willing to pay me over 18$ an hour. Which is not a livable wage at all, when the national average is above that, and even those people are almost living pay check to pay check. I cant afford college because I cant even afford a car. I ride to work on a bike no matter the weather. EVEN if i stay at the same job I am at and move up to the highest i can with out a college degree, and the position was actually open, I need to wait roughly 5 years to make 20$ an hour. So even if i work my ass off i still will be making less with annual raises then the natural inflation of our economy leading me to always be living pay check to pay check and no way to build retirement knowing I am going to be working until i die, with no health care, ill die a miserable most likely cancer death.


So now days I just have enough to make me happy and be able to pack in a military bag and a back pack, in my apartment. Knowing any time I could not have enough and be homeless. It kinda makes being homeless seem just as easy when you get used to being homeless. Sure I love a roof over my head but I know its not permanent for me. It just takes one problem and poof.


Segod_or_Bust t1_j8owc83 wrote

New York has the highest level of income inequality in the country and is home to over 100 billionaires, surely their philanthropy will help any day now~


FLORI_DUH t1_j8p2w9s wrote

You can't help people who don't want to be helped, no matter how much money you have.


crowsaboveme t1_j8oxmhw wrote

Like build big buildings to house the homeless in and have hospitals where we can place the mentally ill until they get better? Something like that?


Rightfoot28 t1_j8ox8zc wrote

Eliminate income, corporate, property, capital gains taxes and social security and you will see this and pretty much every other economic issue in our country vanish. All these other ideas are bandaids that aren't addressing the ROOT problem.

When you tax businesses....which already operate on razor thin margins....they respond one of two ways. They either lower pay or increase prices, or both. This has the net result of people who are now less well paid being unable to afford commercial goods, which are now too expensive. This is why cost of living is so high.

Government is too big and sucks too much wealth out of the economy, while neglecting to perform its antitrust functions so that bankers and politicians can line each others pockets.

The end result is that the people who are the worst off simply give up trying to make it and choose to be numb and carefree. It's not a pretty sight, and it will never change until we fix the economy.


Codydw12 t1_j8ovca3 wrote

The answer to homelessness is build housing to create homes.


Heap_Good_Firewater t1_j8oxvbm wrote

That will partially solve the problem.

There are people who are homeless who just need a job or money or an affordable house. Low-cost housing and aid programs can help these people.

There are other people who are homeless who are incapacitated by mental illness and/or addiction and no amount of money or physical infrastructure will help them without a more purposeful intervention. Some people are afraid of living indoors, others would quickly ruin any shelter they were provided and make life miserable for their neighbors.

We need to rebuild our public mental health infrastructure and start involuntarily committing people for their own good. Letting a profoundly mentally ill person run their own life isn't empowering. It's cruel.


Greazyone t1_j8outzg wrote

Bus them to Mexico and Canada, and we can trade them for immigrants.


[deleted] t1_j8oss2h wrote

It's an unsolvable dilemma. Many of them are substance addicted, and cannot afford to have somewhere to live. You can house them, but forcefully cramming people into beds is not ideal and it's expensive. You can wait for them to get arrested and go to prison for stealing or drug possession. You could just ditch all of your human empathy and round them up to work in labor camps like China did with the Uighurs. The best solution is to leave them on the street, were they can shoot up and occasionally be a bother to somebody. The police are just there to clean up afterwards, and are not able to prevent any issues with them.


ComprehensiveHorse30 t1_j8ov87n wrote

Genocide of a certain religion and homelessness are not …. Comparable. The Uighur population were largely functioning and active members of society.

Homelessness is a global problem and there IS things we can do. Addiction help (free), job counseling, housing resources, better resources for vets (40% of homeless people are vets)…. The list goes on.


[deleted] t1_j8ox8k9 wrote

I hate Reddit sometimes, I was not comparing those two things. I was just comparing the action. Get an education before arguing online with people when you clearly don't understand what is being said.


ComprehensiveHorse30 t1_j8oy8vu wrote

You too friend.

It’s inappropriate to bring up a active genocide when the topic is homeless populations.


[deleted] t1_j8p24wq wrote

You still don't get it, to clarify, I do not condone genocide to the homeless. I was merely listing options that are frequently analyzed in this debate.


[deleted] t1_j8p2pz8 wrote

You are dumb. It is not unsolvable. Yes you will always have homeless. Not to this degree though. I was homeless and now am not. Though I balance on the edge. I have no drug problems and my mental problems are not job/social breaking. Why am I always close to homeless and prior homeless? Because I do not have a college degree and no one highers for much if any above minimum wage. Minimum wage is not livable in any state currently. I can not go to college because I do not make enough money to save/pay for college. Cannot get loans because who loans to a recently homeless person with bad credit? Cant get credit up because who gives credit cards to bad credit people? Cant get a home because I have bad credit. Cant get good credit because I cant pay off debts. Cant pay off debts because no job will pay me more then 15-16$. Rent is a few hundred under exactly what i bring home every month. Raises are less then inflation. Cant move up because no college degree. Cant get a car to have maybe better possibilities because I cant get a savings going. Cant get medical coverage because poor. Pay fines for not have medical coverage because poor. Miss a bill because sick. Get fined for missing a bill. Cant pay new bill because poor and missed work and no medical coverage.


See how once you are poor you are cycled to never get out of that pocket, unless some helps you or you get lucky? Why drugs are such an issue also. Once you are this poor and you realize you have no way up, whats the point?


Dunyazad t1_j8oyenf wrote

If it were an unsolvable problem, Finland wouldn't have solved it.


[deleted] t1_j8p2j0s wrote

>solved it

They cut it by almost 70% which is impressive, but with 17k homeless in Finland, they are only dealing with a very small amount. The US has nearly 600,000, and that is just the recorded people.


Greatsavemesome t1_j8p4fsk wrote

But given the population difference between the two countries, Finland actually had a higher proportion of homeless before this (using the numbers you provided, I didn't confirm them), so I'd say they're doing something quite right.


[deleted] t1_j8p4z7u wrote

Comparing the two countries is not possible because the US and it's scale are not comparable. Even with proportionality making sense, it isn't a priority in the legislature.


Greatsavemesome t1_j8p6mul wrote

> it isn't a priority in the legislature

There we agree, and I think that's much more relevant than the population (overall and/or homeless). The government here just doesn't care.


Heap_Good_Firewater t1_j8oyo1v wrote

>It's an unsolvable dilemma.

Japan and Sweden have homelessness rates approaching zero percent. Did they use magic?

It's not an unsolvable problem, but we have to stop pretending we are helping mentally ill addicts by letting them run their own lives.

We have to involuntarily enter them into treatment programs.

Expensive is not the same as impossible, although it seems that way sometimes.