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theedgeofthefreud t1_j96cxni wrote

Reply to comment by just-a-dreamer- in AI - Artificial Intelligence by FreshAirCoolWater

You do recognize that exo planets are detected by the rotation of their stars, not by direct observation, and that the closest star is 4.25 light years away? How in the universe could we say if there are aliens or not? Especially considering that there are at least 100 billion stars in our galaxy and that there are likely 125 billion other galaxies.

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96eegh wrote

By the law of exponential growth.

Human life dates back 5 billion years. We made ourselves known to the galaxy just 65 years ago with the atomic bomb. 100 years ago with faint radio signals.

Within 1.000 years we will inhabitate every planet in the sol system and our existence is seen like a beacon. In 1 million years we could have settled half the galaxy.

Any alien civilization that is just 1 million years ahead of us in evolution would have been detected by us by now. 1 million out of 5 billion years in not that much margin.

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meshtron t1_j96guha wrote

>Human life dates back 5 billion years

Wow, weird ignorance flex there - but you do you boo

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96ic24 wrote

Earliest known life forms

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earliest_known_life_forms

The earliest time for the origin of life on Earth is at least 3.77 billion years ago, possibly as early as 4.28 billion years ago.

Wrong guess but not that much off.

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meshtron t1_j96jqcq wrote

I hope you wear a helmet for your own safety.

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96jz3j wrote

Suppose you see yourself totally different from a tree while your DNA matches 50% with plant life.

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meshtron t1_j96kna3 wrote

I don't spend much time considering how much my DNA matches with plants, but I'd say you're closer to a tree intellectually than I am. So congrats on that

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96ldw1 wrote

You should read books about biology then. Didn't pay much attention in school it seems.

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meshtron t1_j96lu9d wrote

...says the one who started this with a declaration that human life is older than the earth AS SUPPORT FOR another assertion that aliens can't exist. Yep, I definitely need more schooling to reach your level.

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96nosf wrote

Everybody can be 1 billion years wrong in counting. It happens.

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meshtron t1_j96ojvs wrote

You weren't '1 billion years wrong," you were 5 billion years wrong. On a guess of 5 billion years. Discuss with your tree people, they will explain it to you better than I can due to my previously established faulty schooling.

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96p1a5 wrote

Allright, life on earth, where human life is nothing more than an offshot is probably 3.8 billion years old.

Are you happy now.

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meshtron t1_j96q8lm wrote

I've been happy the whole time - but you started off wrong, doubled-down on your wrongness, and are continuing to frolic in the pool of your wrongness. No skin offa my nose - just funny to read.

I would offer this small suggestion (that you will completely ignore): learn to shape your language appropriately to your level of knowledge of any given topic. You've made it readily apparent here you have absolutely no idea about any of the things you're discussing or making assertions about here. That is completely fine; that is how we learn and explore. But doing so using your false assertions as a foundation for equally false arguments is stopping you from actually learning anything. It falls well into the old idiom "sometimes it's better to not speak and appear a fool than to speak and remove all doubt." Learn and explore, but (even on the internet) don't expect to meaningfully steer discussion without understanding at least SOME of the context and subject matter. Learn to ask good questions, learn to receive and internalize good answers, learn to research things that you're curious about, and learn not to just perpetually double-down on your own flawed arguments - your life, should you succeed at this - will be better for it.

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96r8nw wrote

I know that I know little. Therefore, when I see that I declared a wrong number, I look it up on Wikipedia and stand corrected.

My doubts about alien life also comes from recollections of podcasts I enjoyed from Ray Kurzweil and Ben Goertzel. Their arguments concerning alien life make sense to me.

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meshtron t1_j973ru7 wrote

Fair enough I guess. But the numbers were far from the only problem with your argument(s). Trying to roll back bits and pieces of your statement after the fact to "shift" it closer to being true is not a very efficient or credible way to communicate, AND it prevents you from actually learning the material. You should separate "I know" and "I think" from "I heard" and, in your case, "I think I heard."

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theedgeofthefreud t1_j96l2n6 wrote

🤦‍♂️ so anyway. I was just saying that we don't know if there are aliens or not, but you are now half tree and shooting dna to foreign stars. Can you tell me some of your other ideas? I'm bored.

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meshtron t1_j96ncc7 wrote

(Assume this was directed at our friend who's celebrating the 60% of his DNA that matches a banana, but it's something I enjoy thinking about as well)

You're right that the physical distances involved mean it's impossible to rule out alien consciousness elsewhere in the universe. But despite what u/just-a-dreamer- seems to understand, you ALSO have to consider how infinitesimally small human existence is in time compared to the universe.

VERY generously, we've had the ability to receive any wavelength of signal arriving at earth from outside our solar system for maybe 200 years. Our planet has existed for less than 1/3 the life of the universe. It's entirely possible that other civilizations evolved, flourished, then died out (including their plante and even solar system) long before Earth ever existed, and likely that happened before we were able to even know the signal got to us.

We're still at the very beginning of trying to detect life beyond our planet, much less our solar system (and really not at all beyond our galaxy). The real question is whether humanity survives intact long enough to continue this search. I'd wager the chances of that happening are far less than the chances that intelligent life exists in the universe outside Earth right now.

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theedgeofthefreud t1_j96nvn6 wrote

Very eloquent! Hey, if you like thinking about this, have you ever read the Issac Asimov "Foundation" series? u/just-a-dreamer might enjoy it as well. I also like to wonder about these questions and Foundation was just awesome!

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96ngb7 wrote

Yes, from the time we branched away from trees till our miserables present day bodies we haven't detected any alien activity.

And that is for a wide universe. For there probably is nothing out there to detect. Or very far away beyound any usefull interaction.

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theedgeofthefreud t1_j96oj6k wrote

So you acknowledge that there very well could be alien life, beyond a distance at which we could interact with or detect it? Thanks, I think we agree now.

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96pqpv wrote

There could be, but way beyond our reach. Who knows how big the universe actually is.

In a practical sense alien existence won't matter. If we didn't detect anything near or close to our own galaxy by now, there is nothing within our reach.

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theedgeofthefreud t1_j96qdvb wrote

If you understand how, "There could be," is different from "There are no," then my work here is done. Check out "Foundation," I can tell you would like it!

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theedgeofthefreud t1_j96g3bs wrote

Even if an alien civilization did inhabit all of its own solar system, we would be currently unable to detect them. We can't actually observe any of the world's they would inhabit. Also, what makes you think that we would inhabit half the galaxy? A quick Google search informs me that currently a trip to proxima centauri would take 80,000 years. 80,000 years is a long time. Consider how humans lived 80,000 years ago, and try to envision how they will live 80,000 years in the future. It's pretty close minded to be so sure that there is nothing alive in such a vast place as this universe. Perhaps you've seen that picture describing the reach of our radio transmissions? https://www.planetary.org/space-images/extent-of-human-radio-broadcasts

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just-a-dreamer- t1_j96hyta wrote

We will settle the galaxy for the same reason we ventured out of Africa. It is who we are. For the same reason the Greeks build city states at every location their ships could reach.

80.000 years, if it even takes that long with technology to come, is not that much.

Automated machines can prepare new star systems for settlements. While humans might be born out of stored DNA upon arrival. Or whatever we will look like at that point in time.

An alien civilization that follows the laws of evolution would have been detected by us already, at least in our galaxy. 1 million years is little in cosmic time, but gigantic in exponential growth what we will accomplish.

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