Submitted by For_All_Humanity t3_112lnis in Futurology
Comments
PowerfulMilk2794 t1_j8l95l1 wrote
I’m really hoping the batteries work out. Although 75 kWh isn’t very large - I guess that’s why it’s a demo.
For_All_Humanity OP t1_j8la9um wrote
Yeah it’s a start, Sacramento is getting 2GWh worth of them. But data from this is going to be important projects.
24links24 t1_j8n40np wrote
The us spent tons of money researching iron based batteries, succeeded then gave the technology to China and made it illegal to make them in the United States. We are now backtracking trying to tell China they can’t use the technology we just handed them. Typical us politics.
queequagg t1_j8nvtr3 wrote
Based on the article you linked below, what happened is after the DOE developed the tech, they licensed it to a U.S. company that was started by the lead scientist. That company ended up violating the license by sublicensing to a Chinese company because it was cheaper and easier due to better supply chains and more willingness by other companies to invest in these technologies there. Typical American capitalism at work, sadly.
Meanwhile, “the Government Accountability Office found that the Department of Energy lacked resources to properly monitor its licenses” and they never noticed this shit going down.
The primary tie in to “US politics” here is the underfunded government department that is incapable of enforcing its existing regulations, allowing capitalism to do what is best for money rather than what is best for Americans. In the last couple decades, where Republicans haven’t been able to wholesale remove regulations (which they also do plenty of) they’ve been using a strategy of defunding and dismantling agencies so that the regulations are toothless. This particular situation began in 2017, a period when of course this shit really accelerated. (Hell, the DOE specifically was targeted as useless by many Republicans at that time).
PowerfulMilk2794 t1_j8nbrb5 wrote
Yeah… that sounds like bullshit bud
24links24 t1_j8nd0wp wrote
https://www.npr.org/2022/08/03/1114964240/new-battery-technology-china-vanadium
It does sound like bullshit too bad it’s true
luaks1337 t1_j8mfc6a wrote
>Battery technology is largely ignored in the mainstream conversation about renewables
I believe that will change very quickly as more countries transition to +50% renewables.
killcat t1_j8pclqw wrote
Maybe, but it's also often ignored by the progressive community as well, as in they ignore the need for massive storage capacity to back up renewable power.
BigMax t1_j8l0dhl wrote
Is it weird that this is a pilot program? Seems so logical that it should just be done, not necessarily “piloted.”
I know they will learn and improve, but it’s not like this is some outlandish new idea. It’s solar, just over water instead of land.
jppianoguy t1_j8l30pu wrote
What if the structure holding them rusts and falls into the canal? What if the iron batteries overheat?
These real world conditions are why we do pilots
crazyrich t1_j8lrkgd wrote
Regardless of MOST context, new tech solutions should be piloted. This allows development teams to see where weaknesses are to allow for better implementation when fully launched. Think of what a difference 10% energy gain or recognition of structural weaknesses might have, or even impacts on wildlife.
That said, im not commenting on why it is being piloted now instead of earlier.
ShotgunStyles t1_j8l6t90 wrote
Outside of the whole process involving proof of concepts, this idea is less logical than it seems.
Evaporation does not take that much water away from California's water system, especially when it's put into context with how much water is being used.
Solar panels are also not highly desirable in California at the moment. Right now, the state is investing heavily into energy storage options, such as these batteries. The reason being is because the state suffers an energy crunch in the evening hours when solar panels aren't generating any power.
So the dilemma becomes a question of alternatives. Why spend money on solar panels when there are cheaper methods to counter evaporation? Why not instead invest into storage options which can be charged by the surplus of energy that the state gets during the noon hours?
BigMax t1_j8l77c3 wrote
Thanks! Makes sense, appreciate the answer
elehman839 t1_j8nlzms wrote
Just for interest, the power storage systems they are planning to use are described here. The copyright on the datasheet is 2023, so I gather this is pretty new.
Each system comes in a semi-truck trailer-- pretty big. The rated capacity is 400 kWh. To put that in perspective, the capacity of a Tesla Model Y is 75 kWh. So a semi-trailer sized battery can charge only 5-6 electric cars from 0 to full.
This makes sense, I suppose. The battery must make up a large part of an electric car, and such batteries probably have higher energy density than these storage systems. Still, I guess it is good to know that a semi-sized battery is not going to power a small city or something, but rather maybe charge all the electric cars on one block.
Weak_Personality_570 t1_j8nz9ny wrote
So those panels may get damaged and leak into our water supply. Why not just cover it and build the panels on the side of it. Why take a chance when it's not necessary?
FuturologyBot t1_j8ky2mi wrote
The following submission statement was provided by /u/For_All_Humanity:
>Project Nexus is a $20 million pilot in California’s Turlock Irrigation District that launched in October of last year. The project team is exploring solar over canal design, deployment, and co-benefits using canal infrastructure and the electrical grid. >India already has solar panels over canals, but Project Nexus is the first of its kind in the US. The Turlock Irrigation District was the first irrigation district formed in California in 1887. It provides irrigation water to 4,700 growers who farm around 150,000 acres in the San Joaquin Valley. >About 8,500 feet of solar panels will be built over three sections of Turlock Irrigation District’s canals. The three sections feature areas of various orientations and canal widths that range from 20 to 100 feet wide. >Project Nexus will explore whether the solar panels reduce water evaporation as a result of midday shade and wind mitigation; create improvements to water quality through reduced vegetative growth; reduce canal maintenance as a result of reduced vegetative growth; and of course, generate renewable electricity. >The California Department of Water Resources, utility company Turlock Irrigation District, Marin County, California-based water and energy project developer Solar AquaGrid, and The University of California, Merced, are partnering on the pilot.
Iron flow battery storage
>Long-term iron flow battery storage is now going to be added to Project Nexus; Wilsonville, Oregon-based long-duration iron flow battery maker ESS is going to supply two 75kW turnkey “Energy Warehouse” batteries.
>ESS says that its technology was selected for its “inherently safe and non-toxic characteristics, making it preferable for siting adjacent to water infrastructure.” Its iron flow technology can provide up to 12 hours of flexible energy capacity. Iron flow chemistry doesn’t use critical minerals such as lithium or cobalt – it uses iron, salt, and water. Hugh McDermott, ESS senior vice president, said:
>“Long-duration energy storage is the key that will enable Project Nexus to not only conserve water and generate renewable energy, but provide on-demand, clean power 24/7. >This project addresses multiple climate challenges at once and is the kind of innovative approach that will build a climate-resilient future.”
>If all 4,000 miles of California’s canals were covered with solar panels, that could produce 13 gigawatts of renewable power. A gigawatt is enough to power 750,000 homes, so that would be enough power for 9.75 million households. For perspective, as of July 2021, there were 13.1 million households in California.
It’s very exciting to see non-LI batteries getting deployed in real world environments. Battery technology is largely ignored in the mainstream conversation about renewables, but is absolutely vital for our energy future.
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/112lnis/uss_first_solar_panels_over_canals_pilot_will/j8ku69k/
[deleted] t1_j8l4gtz wrote
[deleted]
btribble t1_j8lwumo wrote
*Utilize. Whoever wrote this headline made it sound like the solar panels have robot arms and are dropping batteries in the canal.
Meneth32 t1_j8mli49 wrote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_redox_flow_battery
Efficiency roughly 70%.
VincentGrinn t1_j8m7erg wrote
well thats one way to bog down a perfectly reasonable well established project
For_All_Humanity OP t1_j8ku69k wrote
>Project Nexus is a $20 million pilot in California’s Turlock Irrigation District that launched in October of last year. The project team is exploring solar over canal design, deployment, and co-benefits using canal infrastructure and the electrical grid. >India already has solar panels over canals, but Project Nexus is the first of its kind in the US. The Turlock Irrigation District was the first irrigation district formed in California in 1887. It provides irrigation water to 4,700 growers who farm around 150,000 acres in the San Joaquin Valley. >About 8,500 feet of solar panels will be built over three sections of Turlock Irrigation District’s canals. The three sections feature areas of various orientations and canal widths that range from 20 to 100 feet wide. >Project Nexus will explore whether the solar panels reduce water evaporation as a result of midday shade and wind mitigation; create improvements to water quality through reduced vegetative growth; reduce canal maintenance as a result of reduced vegetative growth; and of course, generate renewable electricity. >The California Department of Water Resources, utility company Turlock Irrigation District, Marin County, California-based water and energy project developer Solar AquaGrid, and The University of California, Merced, are partnering on the pilot.
Iron flow battery storage
>Long-term iron flow battery storage is now going to be added to Project Nexus; Wilsonville, Oregon-based long-duration iron flow battery maker ESS is going to supply two 75kW turnkey “Energy Warehouse” batteries.
>ESS says that its technology was selected for its “inherently safe and non-toxic characteristics, making it preferable for siting adjacent to water infrastructure.” Its iron flow technology can provide up to 12 hours of flexible energy capacity. Iron flow chemistry doesn’t use critical minerals such as lithium or cobalt – it uses iron, salt, and water. Hugh McDermott, ESS senior vice president, said:
>“Long-duration energy storage is the key that will enable Project Nexus to not only conserve water and generate renewable energy, but provide on-demand, clean power 24/7. >This project addresses multiple climate challenges at once and is the kind of innovative approach that will build a climate-resilient future.”
>If all 4,000 miles of California’s canals were covered with solar panels, that could produce 13 gigawatts of renewable power. A gigawatt is enough to power 750,000 homes, so that would be enough power for 9.75 million households. For perspective, as of July 2021, there were 13.1 million households in California.
It’s very exciting to see non-LI batteries getting deployed in real world environments. Battery technology is largely ignored in the mainstream conversation about renewables, but is absolutely vital for our energy future.