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umlcat t1_j8ml80u wrote

Or "the world will give you it's own version", if you are not clear of your own version...


you_always_do t1_j8o1nes wrote

That’s how I interpreted the quote


rock_gremlin t1_j8obxkg wrote

Yeah I think that's the point of the quote. You better decide who you are and be clear about it or else the "choice" will go to others


albertbeauchard t1_j8p9orq wrote

There is another interpretation, a little more difficult, but I think it yields much better results. There’s a gatha by Huineng that breaks away from the traditional thinking in Zen, where when applied here would sound something like if there is no one to ask who you are how can it tell you who you are? This can be varied a few different ways, but they all get to the same point. Any attempt to not be defined by the world is in itself a way to be defined by the world. It’s a double bind, regardless of choice it has the same outcome. The way out is not that simple.

The quote make a good appeal to us, but deep down does not really achieve much. It does serve a good starting point.


PersonOfInternets t1_j8q1l65 wrote

I thought this was razor sharp obvious. Figured we'd be talking about the repercussions lol


Awesam t1_j8p0lfa wrote

plot twist: in the end, everyone's a lil bitch just dying and shit


wanderer1999 t1_j8o5yi7 wrote

Then again, some say free will is an illusion. I used to think we all have complete agency, but in reality, we are sort of guided by an invisible force.

Are all the decisions you have made really yours? Or was was it influenced/guided by the world anyway?

I don't mean to use this as an excuse to absolve responsibility, because we all have to bear it. What I mean is that if you can't "make it", you shouldn't beat yourself up over it. It's one less burden off of your mind. It's also a reason to be kind to other who fail through no fault of their own, because in a different universe that could be you too.


sqt246 t1_j8oarzk wrote

It’s not an invisible force. It’s a series of logic gates. You like some shit and don’t like other shit and then make decisions to get more of what you like and less of what you don’t. Humans are basic and simple. They just like to pretend it’s complicated.


keeldude t1_j8ok84l wrote

If you keep drilling down on the why you have certain preferences, at the very beginning of the causal chain of events, it is unlikely that choosing to do that thing or preferring that thing was the beginning of it. Evolution, nature/nurture, biology, chemistry, biophysics etc are slowly chipping away at the facade of free will. You do still own your actions because you exist physically in this universe and in your body. But without a supernatural component to the brain (which is totally fine and good to believe in, and I think it's valid and human to have opinions that can't be proved) free will in the truest sense is very unlikely. But this line of reasoning is perhaps an academic and philosophical argument which probably ought not to be inserted into your daily decision tree.


sqt246 t1_j8pgr4l wrote

A lot of it boils down to pretty basic preferences of avoiding pain and seeking pleasure tbh. We’re just animals that pretend like they invented thinking.


nunsaymoo t1_j8pf7g3 wrote

That's basically the correct answer. I just watched that YouTube video and was unimpressed with the xNTP philosophical debate-just-for-the-sake-of-debate bullshit.

The bottom line is that you can spend all day thinking about what you want for dinner, but ultimately, whatever you have is what it is. Maybe you coulda, woulda, shoulda chosen something else in an alternate universe, but not this one.


nunsaymoo t1_j8pb9mn wrote

The invisible force goes by many names — God, society, the establishment, the media, the powers that be, etc.


wanderer1999 t1_j8pf4et wrote

Correct. And even before that it's human biology, mammalian biology, then it's physics and chemistry, geography (because believe it or not geography does influence your behavior, it's where you are born, the countries around your borders...). It goes way way deep.


nunsaymoo t1_j8pfy46 wrote

In the future, scientists will prove astrologers right all along that we're all influenced by the gravitational pull or whatever of everything in outer space.


wanderer1999 t1_j8pkh5b wrote

Well not quite like that but i see what you mean.

We are a product of billions of years of interactions in universe. But nobody really can pinpoint exactly how something that far in the past influence our exact behaviour. It is likely the astrologers are right in that general sense, but still is completely wrong in their exact assertions.


PersonOfInternets t1_j8q2rqd wrote

I don't usually do this but I'm gonna follow you. Actually I've never done that, maybe poppinkream or something but he had his own subreddit so who knows.

Anyway I really like how you mentally organize this in relation to the quote. We are all on a predetermined path determined by different forces converging to create this "river" of fate, only deciding your own path using your sentience will allow you to deviate from it. But that's a choice (and a challenge), it's okay to just flow like water. Not everyone has the strength to swim for the shore, but we should try to enjoy the view nonetheless.

Hell, for all we know the ones who deviate could be predetermined anyway. #followthewhiterabbit


wanderer1999 t1_j8qae5x wrote

It is nice to see someone who can see eye to eye. And thanks for the kind words, I have much more to learn myself.

I actually got this from brilliant people like Sam Harris, Alfred Mele, Brian Greene...

Again, this is not to say that we should live with abandonment because we still have some control in our small lives. But to me this philosophy is more relaxing, like flowing in water as you say.


Intelligent-Day-4583 t1_j8o321i wrote

Saw this while I was working out just a sec ago. Gave me chills, I’ve been gaslit for such a large period of my life and I’m finally fed up, changing things for myself. Renovating my identity.


dollywooddude t1_j8mikhj wrote

I don’t fully understand. How will the world tell you? Why don’t you know? How is this motivating?


thaddeus423 t1_j8mliys wrote

The world is going to demand and expect certain things from you.

Those things could differ depending on what sort of walk of life you’re on.

If you tend to wander aimlessly with no goals or are uncertain what you want to be in life (or vice versa) things will happen to you that you do not like, and things will happen to you that you do like. The same can be said for someone who has goals and doesn’t wander, but they might have a bit more identity figured out.

It’s up to you to sort through these things with your thoughts and your emotions and decide who you are or what type of person you’d like to be.

I think it’s motivating because a lot of us are lost.

A lot of us are just making it up as we go, trying to survive, seeing what sticks to the wall when we throw it, and doing whatever we can to make our weird little hearts happy in an otherwise short and unforgiving life.

If you don’t know who you are, life will show you.

And while incredibly terrifying, I’m enlightened.


HaysteRetreat t1_j8nb8xq wrote

Your comment is more motivating than the quote to me.

Life or the world may tell you who you are but only if you know how to listen and don't confuse it with society telling you who it wants you to be.
Because that second bit is a trap that can kill identities and make for a miserable life.


thaddeus423 t1_j8ncrdc wrote

A very important, wonderful point.

Thank you, friend.


Trips-Over-Tail t1_j8ntmd5 wrote

This is one of those annoying life "advices" that assert that you need some nebulous skill to live, but gives no clue whatsoever of how to acquire this skill, or what it is.


kippypapa t1_j8oiwv8 wrote

In college, some people wanted to become doctors. They set out on a path and said that’s what they wanted. Others went to business school and just hoped to get hired somewhere. Whoever hired them told them what they were going to be. The latter sucks, just ask any corporate worker.


Trips-Over-Tail t1_j8ouj12 wrote

Yes, but the people who wanted to be doctors had gotten to the point that they knew what they wanted to be, and that hurdle is both very tall to jump and off in an unmarked direction.


kippypapa t1_j8owcvd wrote

It’s just an example. You can substitute doctor for anything. At least you’re taking a stance. The other person is just wandering around with less of a stance in life.


Kaoru1011 t1_j8pmchw wrote

Are you saying going to business school means you’re not sure of what you’re going to be doing? That’s not true, you can narrow down what type of business you want to do and you can also start your own business


kippypapa t1_j8ps9h3 wrote

Most don’t start businesses, most apply at a company then the company slots them according to their needs


Kaoru1011 t1_j8pucl4 wrote

Or you could also have multiple sources of income and have a small business. Many different ways to make a living


kippypapa t1_j8q0gdh wrote

Right but business administration students generally end up in corporations.


Kaoru1011 t1_j8q0z9d wrote

That’s bc it’s super broad, I’m in marketing which is more of an actual field


__me_again__ t1_j8nlp67 wrote

Thanks, ChatGPT.


hezzospike t1_j8rgpjy wrote

Nah that comment was definitely written by the user. It doesn't feel like a high school essay.


going2leavethishere t1_j8n8g1f wrote

Just did a wiki rabbit hole dive. The man was all about the collective consciousness that we are who we are because of those before us.

He states that his inspiration towards such a philosophy came from when he was around the age of 5-6. He carved a small mannequin into the ruler and would place it in his pencil case. He painted a rock on both sides and put that into his case. He then hid the case in his attic. From time to time he would visit the case with notes that were coded in a language he created.

Later in life he learned of totems and how he had been preforming a similar ritual to indigenous people all around the world. That a young boy who never learned of any of this would be able to accomplish the same things as a group miles away.

What really fascinated me was the dude started developing signs of schizophrenia and instead of medicating or hospitalization. He isolated himself and let the hallucinations run ramped. Scribbling everything in a note book which later became The Black Book. Full of random dark thoughts and imagery. He later came out of isolation and made a new transcript of the entire thing which is known as The Red Book.


_chippchapp_ t1_j8opfql wrote

Thanks for this fascinating information, thats new to me.

But i'd say its also worth noting that he teamed up with Freud and was one of the fathers of psychotherapy. Which is heavily inspired by buddhisg philosophy that both of them studied intensivly. For everyone has highly autonomous parts in their psyche, schizophrenia is just a desise where the managment of those gets out of balance. And buddhist practises (meditation) enables you to clearly look inward and connect/map out these parts of your mind.


going2leavethishere t1_j8pilaz wrote

Wiki mentioned that the they had a short lived partnership. Freud thought he found his messiah, his prince, his successor to the head of psychology but they differed on the ideology behind the collective consciousness and then parted ways.

Kind a of a sad story overall.


Ed_Hastings t1_j8oy4dx wrote

As interesting as that is, I feel like a totem worshiping untreated schizophrenic is not the ideal person to take life advice from.


going2leavethishere t1_j8piswa wrote

Hahahah fair point. The beauty of theology, psychology, philosophy is there is no right or wrong answers. Just understanding of how we as humans interact with the world.

We see it as he needs medication or help. He saw it as an opportunity to witness first hand what was happening and the ability to properly document what was happening.


NehEma t1_j8mlzjz wrote

The world tells you a lot through social conditioning. Most of the things that we often deem as "natural" or "evident" are social norms. Have you ever been told to "man up" or that something is "not lady-like"? That's the world telling you who you are (or what it thinks you should be).

There are a lots of reasons for not knowing who you are. Lacking similar people around you is one possible reason.

imho it's motivating because it gives you other options than the miserable life you might've been ascribed.


ihitrockswithammers t1_j8n3tn9 wrote

This makes a lot of sense to me. I'm gender non-conforming in that I'm a tall guy with masculine facial features, and I'm most happy with my waist length hair down, wearing a long flowing dress and make up. This is apparently extremely strange to 99% of people, disturbing even.

Gender roles are very deeply ingrained in society and our training/conditioning starts early. It never even occurred to me that this is who I want to be until my mid 30s, and it was very painful to discover about myself.

Most of the time I dress fairly normally because it's practical for work as a stonecarver (currently wearing overalls and a woolly hat), and people make hardline assumptions about who I am and how I'm likely to behave. How I ought to behave.

Occasionally I'll slip up and a sudden expression of happiness will come out in a very girly way, like fists balled to my cheeks and little jumps for joy. This is usually regarded as utterly pathetic, by both men and women alike - at least in the straight cisgender world. If I'm working on site I can't express myself freely at all because if my queer side shows at all it can make an entire room of previously relaxed laughing men freeze over and turn sour.

I'm still doing the work of shrugging off these societal shackles in my early 40s.


NehEma t1_j8p0bxs wrote

Hey fellow breathing human being \o

I'm glad you're able to deconstruct these social norms and experiment with things that make you happier and feel more fulfilled.

I'm not for that bespoke cishet world but afaik they tend to be scared by masc looking folks expressing other emotions than anger ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I'd say it's easier to be yourself and send idiots fuck themselves than play a part that wasn't meant to be yours. Otoh I'm a 27yo French countryside punk, what do I know? :)

(Lastly, lots of guys look stunning in dresses and everybody telling you the contrary is a bad liar)

PS: nice username


ihitrockswithammers t1_j8qudld wrote

> I'm a 27yo French countryside punk, what do I know? :)

All of the things ;0)

Thanks! I'm finding it really difficult tbh, how to know what is authentically me and what is the result of all those years of the world telling me who I am. Queer theory says gender is performative but I didn't respond well to my training in the masculine stage show. Some people do, and are quite comfortable in that space, and more power to them, but finding another path is challenging when most of the people you care about are deeply uncomfortable with it and angrily try to push you off it and back on to the traditional one.

How do people in the country feel about punks?


NehEma t1_j8s1no6 wrote

It is fucking difficult. You have to find out what makes you the happiest while dealing with losing a lot of your role models which tend to react disappointingly to all your endeavours.

First and foremost: the naysayers are wrong.

Do you have some supportive people around you? If you happen to need some, and are ok with that person being me, my DMs are open and you would be welcomed.

I've been so damn lucky to have had some supporting close friends who spent a whole lot of energy to cheer me up and reassure me. Now they're my dear family ♥

Some people have a very detailled plan about what will make them happy and what they'll need to do to get it. You don't seem to have that, I don't either, and tbh I think most people are in the same case... I just tried as much things as I could and kept what seemed to work best for me. I had some tries at being a guy, then a high femme phase, now I've stabilized a bit somewhere between butch and androgynous. It is ok to doubt yourself, admit than something was just a phase, and test weird stuff :)

People tend to react a bit weird to me because of my looks (tattoos, piercings, colorfull hair, etc) and because I'm a tad socially awkward but it's almost always a matter of first impressions rather than direct hostility. Often they're very confused about whether I'm a dude or a woman but it's been a constant during my whole life so I'm getting the hang of it ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

edit: 'Cause if it becomes too easy/ Friend, you'll start to lose your punch


ihitrockswithammers t1_j8sxde6 wrote

I have a great friend who's also a trained make up artist, and her mum used to dress the stars in movies in the '70s, she's been amazing. My employer was always like the big brother I never had but he seems to be struggling with it now. I really appreciate that, thankyou.

Yeah it's all about community, we're lost on our own, most of us anyway.

I have an idea of what I want, not so much how to get there. I've been making sculptures for the last 20 years, that's been my lifeblood. I feel deeply connected to the things I make, which helps, but it's not enough in the long run. It's human connection and partnership I need to find.

I'm similar, in some ways I'm very masculine, others quite femme, though it's my feminine side that's the hardest to express. I've been having my beard lasered off cause it's such a huge barrier to feeling like myself. Still very heavy stubble around my mouth and I hate it, makes me look like the thug I am definitely not. And that in turn seems to influence the kind of potential partners I attract.


genuinely_insincere t1_j8n2ssp wrote

Sometimes things can be indirectly motivating. This isn't telling you go out there and get shit done. But it is telling you to look Inward and get things done inside.


kadaka80 t1_j8mwp3c wrote

The world told me the other day, "Carl Jung" and I said, what?


genuinely_insincere t1_j8n3ghn wrote

I don't get it


kadaka80 t1_j8n6hqk wrote

As if the world literally spoke and said : Carl Jung


CavemanSlevy t1_j8msg77 wrote

I don’t think this quote will resonate with younger Americans. In our era of hyper individualism , society has ceased offering any direction on what it would like from us.


HaysteRetreat t1_j8nc4gb wrote

Heck my take is society will actively push you to be what it wants at the expense of your true self. That may be changing slowly but cultural and familial expectations have led to a lot of people acting exactly as they thought the world was telling them and ending up miserable.


genuinely_insincere t1_j8n3ey5 wrote

That's an interesting idea. This is actually one of my least favorite quotes from Carl jung. I don't know if it really had that much weight before either. I think older Generations like this quote because it gave them a reason to be confrontational. When in reality, confrontational people are just defensive. They have internalized bullying. So if somebody is being bullied, they have every right to defend themself. They shouldn't really need a reason from a random quote.

So I think older Generations liked this quote for that reason. And I think that partly motivated Carl Jung to say this. But at the same time you can also see how he was just saying that we need to know who we are. Basically it's just saying to know thyself.


PersonOfInternets t1_j8qhemj wrote

Completely disagree. Ultimately we still live under capitalism. If humanity comes up with another way maybe this quote won't mean as much.

The world requires a blood sacrifice from us all. We can either sculpt that sacrifice in a way that it is beneficial to us, or the world will take from us in whatever way is most beneficial to it.


traumatized90skid t1_j8o7kbn wrote

"Everyone will label and judge you"

Is supposed to be comforting how?


scruffmgckdrgn t1_j8oxx6d wrote

It is not supposed to be comforting at all.


traumatized90skid t1_j8oy3vy wrote

Well motivating then? How is it motivating? It is supposed to be that since that's the name of the sub, but I equally don't see that.


scruffmgckdrgn t1_j8oynnb wrote

The point of the quote is, roughly, having the world force you to be someone who you aren’t really sucks, and the way to defend yourself from that is to know who you are. The motivation it seeks to conjure up in you is the desire to become clear in your own mind as to who you are.


EyeballError t1_j8nrwgu wrote

The “world” or “others” is the collective conscious and unconscious “mind” - the mind is actually one, we’re all (relative) aspects of the universal (absolute) mind. So, when you assert yourself on the world through activities, you’re essentially telling the world what you are and defining your ego boundaries, what separates “you” and “other”. If you have “weak” ego boundaries (mental, psyche), and fail to assert yourself on the world, the “other” egos/minds who have a stronger sense of “self” will project what and who you are onto you through having already defined who and what they are.


Immediate_Rice6770 t1_j8p0hzf wrote

All humans believe in god, some people chose their god, some people don’t.


ArtSpeaker t1_j8n3uxm wrote

If someone won’t, or can’t, tell you who they are, then you gotta infer it from other things: what they do, how they do things, etc.

I think op means this as malicious? And it can be. But there’s real, and really helpful, ways this stuff can happen.


DukeVerde t1_j8p8tub wrote

"Hello, World!"


"Hello, Dave!"


nunsaymoo t1_j8pautp wrote

How long does this take? Don't keep me in suspense here.


Dante_Leonardo t1_j8pfj92 wrote

So world who am I? I think heard it oh wait it's just silence maybe the world doesn't even know what it is either hasta mañana 🤣


Lomek t1_j8pkth3 wrote

It's a warning/threating quote. It is only motivational in terms of that you should NOT let the world tell you who you are.


giannarelax t1_j8pppnw wrote

called world

no answer :(


DistortedVoid t1_j8puo6n wrote

Its funny, the world keeps trying to tell me who I am, but I already know who I am, they're the ones who fucking don't.


hoiboy79bw t1_j8qf6hf wrote

Figured we'd be talking about


Decent_Jello_8001 t1_j8qqf0u wrote

I do know what I am therefore I tell the WORLD what's up


queenofcabinfever777 t1_j8qyiit wrote

I found a fortune on the ground in an unexpected place, and it said “if you can’t decide for yourself, someone else is going to”


killstimehere t1_j8mo0so wrote

Sounds deep but eh


genuinely_insincere t1_j8n2w8s wrote

He's the father of modern psychology. What more do you want before you admit that something is a deep thought? Is there any such thing as a deep thought?


Ed_Hastings t1_j8ozf8n wrote

Being the father of a field isn’t the same thing as having ideas that are credible by modern standards. Obviously not everything he wrote is incorrect, but you can’t just take it as wholesale credible either.


genuinely_insincere t1_j8vbfik wrote

No that's true but you also can't just say it's not deep. Like what would possibly be the standard of a deep thought then? If he's the father of psychology he's probably going to have some deep thoughts.


pontuskompis t1_j8nq1yw wrote

Is he though? Didn't he work with psychoanalysis?


genuinely_insincere t1_j8vc5ew wrote

And he also invented mbti or what eventually became mbti. Which is a flawed personality theory.

But I would say that's similar to how boomers are with technology. Some of them invented computers. And now you have gen Z who are able to probably develop new forms of Technology based on computers.

So nowadays we are constantly learning new things about our brains and our minds. And Carl Jung was one of the first to start looking at that.

I'm not saying he's an infallible genius I was just kind of joking on that guy because they said this isn't a deep thought and it's like okay at what point is it a deep thought? He's the father of psychology I'm sure he's going to have some deep thoughts.


killstimehere t1_j8nb61f wrote

He could also have been the Jordan Peterson of his time. We just don't have enough to go on. I've heard some wise shit he's said


rock_gremlin t1_j8ocfom wrote

Are you ... comparing Carl Jung to Jordan Peterson 😭😭


genuinely_insincere t1_j8vd9cj wrote

For some reason people are really defensive against my comment here

Honestly this subreddit is kind of garbage. I don't know why. It's like, on every post there's a million people arguing against it. Like why did they join or subscribe to a get motivated subreddit if they're going to argue against every post that's about motivation?

I guess I'm being rude but they're kind of asking for it


rock_gremlin t1_j8vmymr wrote

Oh yeah it's fully garbage. I'm fr gunna bounce from it soon lol. People expect to be able to find life's meaning in a single quote without actually researching the history of the person who said it or their beliefs. It's a sentence for crying out loud. If you don't know the context you probably aren't going to glean anything from it lmao, especially when it comes from complex thinkers like psychologists. And yet here we have all these folks (who don't even seem to know who Carl Jung is or what his incredible contributions were) saying he's spewing bullshit just because they don't understand the quote at face value. sigh


WriterVAgentleman t1_j8owq8q wrote

We have a lot to go on. He was an extremely prolific writer. If you were to buy all of his books it'd add up to ~10,000 pages.


mechapoitier t1_j8ntgxw wrote

To quote that drunk barfly from Groundhog Day: “That about sums it up for me”


RanCestor t1_j8nygil wrote

...Then they asked me if I want a big mac.


neshooma t1_j8nyui9 wrote

Cruel but seems right


GoodkallA t1_j8o99kf wrote

This just sounds like the world will give you a label and expect you to follow it regardless how you feel on the matter. Think y'all are straining to find positive meaning in everything.


ThePlush_1 t1_j8oe8gy wrote

Life's like a pile of dog shit. Its messy and unpleasant, but you just gotta roll with it and make the best of it!


jtaraskus t1_j8oelfc wrote

who is the "world" in my created universe?


NY10 t1_j8oevef wrote

What if the world won’t tell you and you don’t know who you are.


3Strides t1_j8qbmax wrote

Stupid. If you tell the world who you are it will tell you that you are wrong. Don’t ask, don’t listen. Even JC said “be not of the things of this world”, and “the world hates me and will hate you too”, and “Lo, I have overcome the world”. Powerful statements whether you are a Christian or not.


Teastainedeye t1_j8n9qf4 wrote

The world can’t tell you something you can’t interpret. Back to square one. But many others have vested interests in getting you to believe “you” are something, so you might as well not know if you can handle not knowing.


Murky-Resolve-2843 t1_j8mnq9y wrote

Why do people not talk more about the weird religious cult Jung started? Like the dude was so obsessed with the occult yet, I rarely see people acknowledge it.

EDIT: I just think the topic is cool and related to religions that have mostly been forgotten. Definitely think it is the infinitly more interesting side to Jung. Then what people present. Not trying to discredit anyone or start a crusade. Just wanna talk cool harmless cults.

EDIT 2: took out hyperbole for better clarity.

EDIT 3: Does anyone know if the Cult Of Dionysus still exists? I think I'm gonna join a cult.


btn1136 t1_j8mroat wrote

Because like most intellectuals: when he’s right he’s right and when he’s wrong he’s wrong. Quit making excuses and get motivated! Maybe join a cult?


xtoplasm t1_j8ozu77 wrote

People love to harp on the questionable parts of a person but they can't seem to give credit where it's due. This is a huge red flag IMO as to how much reflection and application they perform on their own lives. Maybe they wouldn't be so heavy-handed if they realized how hypocritical they truly are. Of course, this is easier said than done when you have such a strong bias about yourself.


sitnlisten t1_j8mslep wrote

The article you linked is entirely about people talking about his weird religious cult. Weird complaint when you found what you’re looking for.


Murky-Resolve-2843 t1_j8mt5b9 wrote

I was supporting my claim. It would be weird if I just made that claim about Jung with no links supporting it.

One dude wrote a book, yet a whole sub genre of self-help is inspired by Jung's stuff. I'm just surprised it isn't brought up more often.


sitnlisten t1_j8mtis5 wrote

So people are talking about it and your concerned about a niche sub-genre of self help? If his cultish writing help a few people better themselves what is the harm? Jungians aren’t out there looking for more cultists in any significant manner. If you’re gonna start a crusade why don’t you go after one of the established religious cults like christianity, islam, or hinduism who all have objectively done infinitely more harm?


Murky-Resolve-2843 t1_j8mttit wrote

I just find it an interesting topic. It isn't some crusade. I didn't mean to upset you.


sitnlisten t1_j8muhlk wrote

You didn’t upset me. I’m just curious. Did jung or his cult negatively impact you or someone around you? I think he was deluded and I think some of the stuff he put out is helpful in the right context. Normally when I’ve talked with people about jung, the majority agree he was wrong and harmful about some aspects of mental health and others he had some helpful insights that are beneficial to others. My surprise was your comment saying that no one is talking about him and his occult ideas when in my experience it’s been a commonly agreed upon fact. Anyone can write a self help book and it’s easier to borrow ideas that have been helpful to others than to recreate your own. I also am trying to be more open to what is helpful to other people and despite my own misgivings I think jungians have helped people in significant distress and if that’s what they’ve achieved without cult initiation why not let them be?


Murky-Resolve-2843 t1_j8mvx7w wrote

Because I think the cult stuff is way cooler than the self-help stuff. I don't have a problem. You assumed I had a problem and immediately went on the defensive. I was just trying to start a conversation about a cool subject


sitnlisten t1_j8mw4wr wrote

You said why is no one talking about this. People are talking about it, your lack of exposure isn’t evidence that something isn’t happening. Didn’t go on the defensive. Went on the offensive to pick apart your false statements.


Murky-Resolve-2843 t1_j8mw9yc wrote

It was a hyperbole. I was literally talking about it to. Making my statement false. If I said "Why is no one watching this awesome TV show." It would be false too. Because I would have watched it.


Murky-Resolve-2843 t1_j8mxu3q wrote

Also, you said, "Let them be." As if I was attacking "Jungians.". Cult, while carryng a negative connotation, I like to study old religions so it doesn't carry that meaning with me. Maybe that's where we got off on the wrong foot.


sitnlisten t1_j8my7s0 wrote

Then broach topics in a way people can understand your point. Your first comment is clearly a criticism with no “wow isn’t this interesting” aspect to it at all.


going2leavethishere t1_j8n9ey6 wrote

I think the most interesting is the fact that he started to have schizophrenic thoughts and instead of talking to a colleague he decided to isolate himself and monitor all his thoughts and hallucinations in The Black Book.


Murky-Resolve-2843 t1_j8nd67n wrote

This also happened right after he did a deep dive into Mithraic religions, which heavily influenced his hallucinations. Makes me curious about the connection schizophrenia might have with religious obsessions. Makes me wonder if historic Oracles/ shamans might have been schizophrenic individuals. They just happened to live in a society that appreciated it instead of stigmatized it. Who knows. Definitely not me.


Shot_Sprinkles_6775 t1_j8qaysn wrote

Schizophrenia often takes religious themes. I think it might be the other way around though. Religions often say that you’re always being monitored, your goodness is being judged, you need saved, etc. kinda decent material for delusions and paranoia so if you’re familiar with those teachings your mind might borrow from them.


Shot_Sprinkles_6775 t1_j8qap8a wrote

“Cool harmless cults” 😂😂. I actually was reading a book about this though. Colin Wilson wrote it. I was kinda surprised to see Jung in there but then again he was so focused on introspection, your subconscious self. That’s what the occult means, stuff you don’t understand. Hidden stuff. It doesn’t have to be like voodoo dolls or hexes. It can be meditating on who you are. Now the Dionysus thing sounds like it was pretty off the chain hahah.


raised_by_groening t1_j8n2cbj wrote

Yea maybe the 'world' use to be a bully, things be a changing...


patawpha t1_j8nupzc wrote

Oh look! Im Carl Jung!


CrazyCaper t1_j8ojske wrote

Who is Carl Jung?