Viewing a single comment thread. View all comments

wanderer1999 t1_j8o5yi7 wrote

Reply to comment by umlcat in [Image] The world will ask you who you are, and if you don't know, the world will tell you. by crm_expert

Then again, some say free will is an illusion. I used to think we all have complete agency, but in reality, we are sort of guided by an invisible force.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFazP2nBIqQ

https://youtu.be/iYrcZfMr2t4

Are all the decisions you have made really yours? Or was was it influenced/guided by the world anyway?

I don't mean to use this as an excuse to absolve responsibility, because we all have to bear it. What I mean is that if you can't "make it", you shouldn't beat yourself up over it. It's one less burden off of your mind. It's also a reason to be kind to other who fail through no fault of their own, because in a different universe that could be you too.

11

sqt246 t1_j8oarzk wrote

It’s not an invisible force. It’s a series of logic gates. You like some shit and don’t like other shit and then make decisions to get more of what you like and less of what you don’t. Humans are basic and simple. They just like to pretend it’s complicated.

10

keeldude t1_j8ok84l wrote

If you keep drilling down on the why you have certain preferences, at the very beginning of the causal chain of events, it is unlikely that choosing to do that thing or preferring that thing was the beginning of it. Evolution, nature/nurture, biology, chemistry, biophysics etc are slowly chipping away at the facade of free will. You do still own your actions because you exist physically in this universe and in your body. But without a supernatural component to the brain (which is totally fine and good to believe in, and I think it's valid and human to have opinions that can't be proved) free will in the truest sense is very unlikely. But this line of reasoning is perhaps an academic and philosophical argument which probably ought not to be inserted into your daily decision tree.

7

sqt246 t1_j8pgr4l wrote

A lot of it boils down to pretty basic preferences of avoiding pain and seeking pleasure tbh. We’re just animals that pretend like they invented thinking.

1

nunsaymoo t1_j8pf7g3 wrote

That's basically the correct answer. I just watched that YouTube video and was unimpressed with the xNTP philosophical debate-just-for-the-sake-of-debate bullshit.

The bottom line is that you can spend all day thinking about what you want for dinner, but ultimately, whatever you have is what it is. Maybe you coulda, woulda, shoulda chosen something else in an alternate universe, but not this one.

1

nunsaymoo t1_j8pb9mn wrote

The invisible force goes by many names — God, society, the establishment, the media, the powers that be, etc.

4

wanderer1999 t1_j8pf4et wrote

Correct. And even before that it's human biology, mammalian biology, then it's physics and chemistry, geography (because believe it or not geography does influence your behavior, it's where you are born, the countries around your borders...). It goes way way deep.

3

nunsaymoo t1_j8pfy46 wrote

In the future, scientists will prove astrologers right all along that we're all influenced by the gravitational pull or whatever of everything in outer space.

1

wanderer1999 t1_j8pkh5b wrote

Well not quite like that but i see what you mean.

We are a product of billions of years of interactions in universe. But nobody really can pinpoint exactly how something that far in the past influence our exact behaviour. It is likely the astrologers are right in that general sense, but still is completely wrong in their exact assertions.

1

PersonOfInternets t1_j8q2rqd wrote

I don't usually do this but I'm gonna follow you. Actually I've never done that, maybe poppinkream or something but he had his own subreddit so who knows.

Anyway I really like how you mentally organize this in relation to the quote. We are all on a predetermined path determined by different forces converging to create this "river" of fate, only deciding your own path using your sentience will allow you to deviate from it. But that's a choice (and a challenge), it's okay to just flow like water. Not everyone has the strength to swim for the shore, but we should try to enjoy the view nonetheless.

Hell, for all we know the ones who deviate could be predetermined anyway. #followthewhiterabbit

1

wanderer1999 t1_j8qae5x wrote

It is nice to see someone who can see eye to eye. And thanks for the kind words, I have much more to learn myself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFazP2nBIqQ

I actually got this from brilliant people like Sam Harris, Alfred Mele, Brian Greene...

Again, this is not to say that we should live with abandonment because we still have some control in our small lives. But to me this philosophy is more relaxing, like flowing in water as you say.

1