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LadyLazaev t1_j8z8his wrote

Really highlights how weak of a character Rey was, lol.

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justasmalltowndad t1_j8z9p48 wrote

Literally the first thing I noticed too, lol

Also, they should have kept the movie version of Eowyn's "I am no man" quote. It's like the pinnacle of all of these quotes.

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Scoobz1961 t1_j90q7tt wrote

Honestly "I am no man" was almost as bad as the quote from Rey. It felt out of place, unsatisfying, dumb and like a comedy bit. She was able to kill the most feared creature in the world because of language semantic. I have no idea how that ended up in the movie.

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justasmalltowndad t1_j90qnlj wrote

You are objectively wrong.

It felt perfectly IN place, (witch king says "no man can kill me") it was satisfying AF especially in the extended version, it was a clever payoff for both characters, and not a single person in the theaters laughed at that part. Sure, there were some smiles but it was because that scene showcases a strong female win in the most SATISFYING way possible.

And it wasn't her line that made her able to kill the witch king... If you believe that, then you are both objectively wrong AND an idiot.

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Talarin20 t1_j90ugo6 wrote

The Witch-King said "no Man can kill me". Race, not gender.

And yes, it was her line & gender that ultimately killed the Witch-King in the movie, because Tom Bombadil was basically written out and the Hobbits did not have their numenorean daggers, which is how Merry originally made this kill possible.

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Scoobz1961 t1_j90r9sk wrote

I cant be objectively wrong in my subjective opinion. I could also do without the unnecessary personal attacks.

I liked the scene in the blueray 2.1 extended version where the scene continued:

>Witch King: no man can kill me
Eowyn: I am no man
*Eowyn stabs the Witch King*
Witch King: Ackshually, the word "man" signifies a person in this case, not gender.
*Witch King kills Eowyn*

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OsosFuriosos t1_j921v9g wrote

To be fair, semantics and word play have always been an important part of literature, and definitely when it comes to prophecy.

Take Macbeth for instance: “None of woman born shall harm Macbeth.” So of course Macbeth just assumes that he will survive the battle. Then Macduff comes along with the whole “Sorry for the miscommunication bro. I wasn’t actually BORN of woman because I was a c-section baby. Ripped untimely from my mothers womb. So…. Gonna just go ahead and kill you now.” (Macduff’s speech here is paraphrased haha)

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Scoobz1961 t1_j927jtd wrote

In my opinion it was a horrible line, but that doesnt matter. What matters is that "I am no man" is in no way motivational line.

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OsosFuriosos t1_j92iwb6 wrote

Sure. This list was not good in a lot of choices lol. Not arguing that.

But you were saying how you didn’t understand how it ended up in the movie. And I’m saying that it had a lot of literary history to prove WHY it ended up there.

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Scoobz1961 t1_j92k4hm wrote

That just means I really didnt like it. I thought it so bad I googled what the hell that was about and found out that there is a cut from movies storyline in the books that explains that it had nothing to do with gender, but the hobbit who stuck the Witch King before her one liner did so with very special magic dagger that made Witch King vulnerable.

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o_-o_-o_- t1_j937gef wrote

Disagree in context of the book, agree in context of motivational quotes. Distilling eowyn and "motivation" down to... being a woman? Lame as fuck. Being a woman is not what makes any woman great, is not where intrinsic worth lies.

But as to the quote being badass,

Context: you snuck into a fierce battle, facing your death and doom for the glimmer of hope if saving your world, when you see basically evil incarnate, a massive, powerful foe, strike down your beloved uncle who's basically a father figure to you and your brother. With fierce courage, maybe passionate stupidity, swept up in the intensity and absurdity of the hopeless battle you marched into, you put yourself between this foe and your dying uncle.

>'Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!'
A cold voice answered: 'Come not between the Nazgûl and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye.'
A sword rang as it was drawn. 'Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may.'
'Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!'
Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. 'But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him.'
The winged creature screamed at her, but the Ringwraith made no answer, and was silent, as if in sudden doubt. Very amazement for a moment conquered Merry's fear. He opened his eyes and the blackness was lifted from them. There some paces from him sat the great beast, and all seemed dark about it, and above it loomed the Nazgûl Lord like a shadow of despair. A little to the left facing them stood she whom he had called Dernhelm. But the helm of her secrecy, had fallen from her, and her bright hair, released from its bonds, gleamed with pale gold upon her shoulders. Her eyes grey as the sea were hard and fell, and yet tears were on her cheek. A sword was in her hand, and she raised her shield against the horror of her enemy's eyes.
Éowyn it was, and Dernhelm also. For into Merry's mind flashed the memory of the face that he saw at the riding from Dunharrow: the face of one that goes seeking death, having no hope. Pity filled his heart and great wonder, and suddenly the slow-kindled courage of his race awoke. He clenched his hand. She should not die, so fair, so desperate At least she should not die alone, unaided.
The face of their enemy was not turned towards him, but still he hardly dared to move, dreading lest the deadly eyes should fall on him. Slowly, slowly he began to crawl aside; but the Black Captain, in doubt and malice intent upon the woman before him, heeded him no more than a worm in the mud.
Suddenly the great beast beat its hideous wings, and the wind of them was foul. Again it leaped into the air, and then swiftly fell down upon Éowyn, shrieking, striking with beak and claw. Still she did not blench: maiden of the Rohirrim, child of kings, slender but as a steel-blade, fair but terrible. A swift stroke she dealt, skilled and deadly. The outstretched neck she clove asunder, and the hewn head fell like a stone. Backward she sprang as the huge shape crashed to ruin, vast wings outspread, crumpled on the earth; and with its fall the shadow passed away. A light fell about her, and her hair shone in the sunrise.
Out of the wreck rose the Black Rider, tall and threatening, towering above her. With a cry of hatred that stung the very ears like venom he let fall his mace. Her shield was shivered in many pieces, and her arm was broken; she stumbled to her knees. He bent over her like a cloud, and his eyes glittered; he raised his mace to kill.
But suddenly he too stumbled forward with a cry of bitter pain, and his stroke went wide, driving into the ground. Merry's sword had stabbed him from behind, shearing through the black mantle, and passing up beneath the hauberk had pierced the sinew behind his mighty knee. 'Éowyn! Éowyn!' cried Merry. Then tottering, struggling up, with her last strength she drove her sword between crown and mantle, as the great shoulders bowed before her. The sword broke sparkling into many shards. The crown rolled away with a clang. Éowyn fell forward upon her fallen foe. But lo! the mantle and hauberk were empty. Shapeless they lay now on the ground, torn and tumbled; and a cry went up into the shuddering air, and faded to a shrill wailing, passing with the wind, a voice bodiless and thin that died, and was swallowed up, and was never heard again in that age of this world

Tldr- it's a clever play on words Eowyn, represented consistently as an intelligent and thoughtful character, made in an absurd moment. Like you're on the brink of death, and a monster says "mankind can't kill me," but uses the word "man," so you jump in with a pun that kind of upends their confident statement. Fits with the wording of prophesy? Check. Why not? A lot of the magic and power in LotR is that of the magic and power of words and intent. This moment supports that wonderfully with a play on words and words and intent as an encouragement, that allows Merry to overcome his own fear, and leading to his ability to make a very helpful assist.

I think the movie actually ruined this moment. I can understand why you didn't like it in the movie. I was disappointed in it in the movie. It's everything in the book, even as someone who was sensitive to things that were too "girl power"-y when I first read the books.

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Scoobz1961 t1_j9479rc wrote

The movie version is so much worse than the book its unreal. The difference is that in the book the line took place during prefight exchange. In the movie it was a stupid oneliner before a kill. It stopped the momentum of the battle and made the audience think she was able to kill him because of her sex.

Now knowing the whole context, I dont understand why they picked the first part of the quote that is about gender instead of the second part that is about standing up to protect your family.

>Éowyn I am, Éomund's daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you, if you touch him

This is much better candidate for motivational line.

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o_-o_-o_- t1_j94my00 wrote

100% with you here, and what you say about the different effects of the differently paced scenes! I'm so happy you appreciated the scene in its full written glory!

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