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ediblebadger t1_j84f889 wrote

Reply to comment by begreen622 in IamA entrepreneur who sold his house on the ocean to bake chocolate chip cookies. Today, 11yrs & $2.5million later we're at the end of the road. by begreen622

But was the scoop biodegradable?

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begreen622 OP t1_j84kzmt wrote

99% as I've always stated.

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ediblebadger t1_j84m802 wrote

Okay, but what do you mean by biodegradable? How long does it take to break down, and under what conditions? Do you mean that, per FTC guidelines, the bags (or 99% of them?) "will completely break down into its natural components within one year after customary disposal"?

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begreen622 OP t1_j84osex wrote

We've dropped that claim years ago. A waste of time

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ediblebadger t1_j84pnpu wrote

I don’t know what to tell you. When evaluating whether I should buy or crowdfund your projects, I have to take into account the track record of your marketing of previous products. Do you believe your marketing was deceptive or not?

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begreen622 OP t1_j84xvxz wrote

I never consciously would do anything deceptive - I do not have to.

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begreen622 OP t1_j84r4mz wrote

my marketing has never been nor ever will be deceptive. Ever.

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ediblebadger t1_j84thv5 wrote

I’d like to trust you on that, but you understand that I can’t know that unless you go into some detail about specifically what conditions under which the bags biodegrade, and what you think happens to your poop bags after people throw them away.

My guess is that if people throw the bags away in the trash (as they must, since dog poop isn’t compostable), the bags will sit in a landfill for substantially longer than a year. Is that correct or incorrect?

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begreen622 OP t1_j84xmha wrote

I can not answer that accurately- what I can say is that I dropped the claim, I would have dropped it years ago if I had any idea that California had enacted a new law that eluded my daily research, that an ridiculously overzealous Assistant DA would glom on to to promote her career instead of acting responsibly. I am most proud that my Dispoz-A-Scoop saves lives as I developed it in the first place to isolate peoples hands who want to pick up poop, from contact with bacteria -especially those with compromised such as those who have a auto-immunity deficiency (cancer patients), and pregnant women.

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ediblebadger t1_j84zmh6 wrote

So do you not know whether your own product was biodegradable? How much research did you do into this before you applied that marketing to your product?

The FTC guidelines I posted above originally came out in 1992. Lots of dog bag makers have been taken to task over this issue in the past. You definitely could have known. Whatever the merits to your grievances against that particular DA, you probably shouldn’t have used that marketing term in the first place, no? In a sense, you cost yourself by making claims that you could not support.

I’m drilling into this slightly because if you said “We were wrong to use that term, technically the bag can biodegrade but we didn’t think fully through what most people think that means in practice, so we removed the claim after the DA told us to.” That would make a lot of sense and be basically fine by me. But that would require acknowledging that you made a mistake, which you seem to be psychologically incapable of doing. This is a very troubling (but common) trait for a business leader!

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begreen622 OP t1_j850zve wrote

I developed and introduced D-A-S in 1985. And I'm not as astute as a socially irresponsible, overzealous, CA Asst. DA who cares more about promoting his or her performance to his or her superiors. There is such a thing as employing discretion and human consideration for constituents, many of whom are small business owners struggling to put food on the table.

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TylerJWhit t1_j8573es wrote

So... What methods and research did you go to confirm your product was biodegradable? Under which conditions are the biodegradable?

You keep saying they are biodegradable and at the same time saying you dropped the claim, then saying you still stand by it.

So once and for all, show us your work.

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begreen622 OP t1_j857vkx wrote

if you wish to be absolutely technical it was true 99% and is true by weight. None-the-less, I stand by everything I say and claim.

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TylerJWhit t1_j8584gh wrote

How do you know that it was biodegradable? What studies are conducted?

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begreen622 OP t1_j85aakv wrote

P.S. please read all of my comments.

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machina99 t1_j85b865 wrote

Cool so on your instructions I just read every comment you've posted. You never once cite a source for any study or research that shows your bags were biodegradable. So how did you know the bag was biodegradable?

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begreen622 OP t1_j85e3l8 wrote

that claim was dropped years ago, as it really had no strategic importance.

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Sacket t1_j85f7m5 wrote

Well I never heard about your business before this AMA, now I guess I know to NEVER buy your products in the future lol.

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machina99 t1_j85enx4 wrote

At the time the claim was made did you do any research or confirmation that the bags were biodegradable? "I stopped making deceptive claims," is different than, "My claim was true."

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TylerJWhit t1_j85m127 wrote

You don't understand. He removed the claim but at the time it was totally true.

Don't worry though, because he dropped the claim when it was.... Well when it was still true... Or something.

Major /s in case anyone is confused.

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hermanhermanherman t1_j85e4o7 wrote

I am and you’re evading the question lol. Just stop answering if you’re going to act like a child

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Blibbobletto t1_j87jfov wrote

"I broke the law but they should have let me off because I'm the main character."

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ediblebadger t1_j85i316 wrote

I'm interested in the idea that these bags are more sanitary than other dog bags. Your website mentions 'bacterial pass-through.' As far as I am aware, touching dog feces through a plastic bag does not put anybody risk of contact with bacteria passing through the plastic.

Can you substantiate the idea that bacteria can migrate through the plastic bag? If you say that your scoop "saves lives", surely you can provide statistics on how many people get sick and die from bacteria transmitted through a plastic bag?

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begreen622 OP t1_j84ypax wrote

biodegradability was never claimed

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ediblebadger t1_j84zyzw wrote

It is pretty clear from the discussion and your previous comments and sources I can find online that you did previously package the product with the claim “99% Bio-Degradable”. Can you explain exactly what that means?

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begreen622 OP t1_j853mxn wrote

Here is exactly what I can say. 99% biodegradable was exactly accurate when I employed the term. When I first learned I need to change the nomenclature was from a large customer who received the notice from the irresponsible Asst. DA before I even received a courtesy note/letter/email/phone call.

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TylerJWhit t1_j857aye wrote

How was it accurate then? Under what conditions?

How can you claim your never made that claim when you keep repeating the claim?

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ediblebadger t1_j856tw2 wrote

If the claim was exactly accurate, then what did it mean specifically? Is it 99% by weight or by volume or what? Under what conditions do the bags degrade, and how long does it take?

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begreen622 OP t1_j8588a0 wrote

by weight. its made of cardboard a low carbon frame and a light .0002 thick plastic film (producer claim)

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ediblebadger t1_j85fmdu wrote

Oh lol, this is actually worse than I thought. I thought you made the bag out of something that is *theoretically* degradable (e.g. in soil with water) but just doesn't degrade in practice. It sounds to me like you are calling this 99% biodegradable based solely on the cardboard, because the plastic is a negligible share of the weight.

Even then, I'm not sure how you get to 99%--the frame is metal, right? I would assume it is more than 1% of the weight of the product but maybe I'm wrong. How much does each component weigh, and how biodegradable is it?

if the bag itself is just some non-degradable plastic like PE, then yes I would say this is a very misleading, if technically true, claim. You could make an equally biodegradable product by just selling a regular plastic bag with the dog poop already in it! "Pre-filled!"

You know very well that this is not what people are looking for when they are looking for an environmentally friendly bag. That's as true in 1985 as it is today. Can you explain why you think this isn't deceptive?

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