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Worried_Click_4559 t1_je26596 wrote

Reply to comment by GuairdeanBeatha in [ Removed by Reddit ] by noOne000Br

Isn't THEY and WE non-singular? Or can individuals now also choose to be plural, if they so desire?

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speck480 t1_je26s9f wrote

Singular they goes back to Middle English, it's not something that just happened "now."

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Worried_Click_4559 t1_je2a0ls wrote

Yes. You're right. I stand corrected as to its use. Haven't seen it attributed to Middle English (but haven't had time to research it thst much). Seems that the APA (American Psychological Association - whoever they are) also include "ze" and "hen" as less common opfions. Whoda thunk it. Live and learn. Thanks.

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speck480 t1_je2bv2p wrote

There are a few appearances in Chaucer (although tbf the grammatical rules governing pronouns changed significantly between Middle and Modern English, so it's harder to identify.)

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snazzychica2813 t1_je2kuwg wrote

Roses are red

Violets are blue

Singular "they"

Predates singular "you"

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elrach06 t1_je29bld wrote

Dude, you have a singular they in your second sentence...

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Puzzleheaded-Fill205 t1_je2a4ud wrote

"individuals" is plural.

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elrach06 t1_je2b982 wrote

But the "they" is referring to a single individual "coosing to be plural," not all individuals collectively.

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Puzzleheaded-Fill205 t1_je3a9ie wrote

No. If it were singular the verb would be chooses, not choose. Read the sentence again. If individuals choose, as opposed to if an individual chooses.

EDIT: Actually, in this specific example they used "can," which overrides the plural / singular distinction on the verb "choose," making it an infinitive regardless if the subject is singular or plural. ("We can choose. He can choose. I can choose. They can choose." etc...) Nevertheless, my point stands: The subject of the sentence is the word individuals, which is plural. They used "they" to refer to "individuals."

And to clarify, I agree 100% that singular they is a common usage that has been correct for centuries. You just picked a bad example because in their second sentence the "they" was referring to "individuals," which is plural, not singular. Thus it was not an example of singular they.

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MinisculeInformant t1_je2an2d wrote

English has four genders: masculine, feminine, neuter, and nonspecific. There are four third-person singular pronouns: he, she, it, and they. Each corresponds to one grammatical gender.

"They" has been used as a singular pronoun since at least the time that Chaucer wrote the Canterbury tales, close to a thousand years ago. However, recently it has become associated with non-binary people (NBs) who prefer to be referred to as "they" rather than by a gendered pronoun. Many people in the USA are bigoted against NBs, and bigots would generally rather be hateful than factually correct.

Personally, I vastly prefer "they" over the slew of neopronouns that have been invented in the last few years.

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DrachenDad t1_je2pbni wrote

>There are four third-person singular pronouns: he, she, it, and they.

Only one is gendered, she. He loosely, don't forget that any gender specific wording attributed to a penis haver is actually for all humans apart from the word male.

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Worried_Click_4559 t1_je2dkrb wrote

Thanks for the advanced English grammar lesson. If I ever get that "refund" I'll send it to you.

Your last line, however, seems a bit opinionated. Such negativity doesn't bother me at all. Did my original comment (admittedly wrong) bother you? It shouldn't have.

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MinisculeInformant t1_je2ey9i wrote

I wasn't one of the people who downvoted you, if that's what you're asking. I guessed (and it seems to be confirmed) that you just aren't used to thinking of "they" as singular.

I'll admit I am a bit opinionated on the subject of neopronouns; I have strong prescriptivist tendencies when it comes to changing language and I dislike meaningless gibberish. I won't hate or mock someone if they prefer neopronouns, but I feel like it's either reinventing the wheel (since we already have NB pronouns) or trying to force more grammatical genders into the language.

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Worried_Click_4559 t1_je2w74s wrote

Downvotes really don't hurt me. I've already been permanently banned from various topics on Reddit due to my non-Liberal stance.

I'm a midwesterner and will continue to believe what I believe, but will consider intelligent arguments from "the other side." I will admit it when I'm shown to be wrong, but will take a bullet just not to cower.

I grew up trusting science but have lived long enough to see it politicized.

We Boomers trusted asbestos, cops and Washington. My Dad, a European immigrant, used to laugh at me for that. He was right. He would have never taken the vaccine like I did. I'm glad my youngest daughter fought against it for her and her kids.

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