Submitted by LadeeAlana t3_ydtnrd in Jokes
"Did you check the victim's pulse?"
"No, I did not."
"Did you check if the victim's breathing had stopped?"
"No, I did not."
"Did you check for any signs of brainwave activity?"
"No, I did not."
"Then how do you even know the victim is dead?"
"Well, his brain is in a jar on my desk right now, but for all I know he might be out practicing law somewhere."
Okay, you made your point Esq.
Didn’t this actually happen though? I’m sure I read it in a book that had records of actual conversations
... and pretty much missed the joke.
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"When was your child conceived?"
"August 25."
"And what were you doing at that time?"
"Getting laid."
part of the point of the joke is that the coroner has nothing to do with checking for signs of life
I know an exchange similar to this was in one of Richard Letterer’s books. Probably Anguished English.
Oh god Anguished English. That unlocked an old memory, think my mum had it when I was a kid
It's been floating around the internet as a real quote since at least 1998, when it was published a reported transcript in National Review magazine (as reported at the time by NCCPR).
The audiobook was never released in a digital format, but I snagged a cassette tape a while back.
Also, cross examination questions aren’t yes or no. They lead to either yes or no.
So not “Did you check the victim’s pulse?” but “You didn’t check the victim’s pulse, did you?”
Depends on the location. In some areas (especially rural counties) the coroner provides official "statement of death," and the body's supposed to remain in place until they can do so. Happened to a neighbor when her grandson ODed in her bathroom, and they wouldn't let her back in the house for several hours until she arrived.
Wouldn't let her back in the house until she arrived....
That's the normal course of events.
The "she" was the coroner
Not true. Cross-examination is questions based on direct examination. Either one of your questions would be fine, provided the attorney before on direct had asked if the victim had a pulse.
Sigh.
You’re correct that cross examination questions have to be within the scope of the topics discussed on direct examination.
I was taking about the form of the question. Many people including a number of attorneys don’t understand the difference between cross and direct. On direct, questions like my second example are prohibited because they lead to a specific answer. Those kinds of questions are only permitted on cross.
It did. A court reporter released a book of crazy depositions she'd heard over the years.
I mean I've transcribed thousands of hours of legal proceedings and can't remember a specific instance where an objection to form was raised because in this case, but I'll keep an ear peeled 🤣
I’m an attorney, and I deal with it all the time.
The rules on leading are incredibly relaxed in state court proceedings, likely because many people don’t really understand the rule. But it’s a different story in federal court. I’ve seen judges end direct examination by federal prosecutors when they continued to ask leading questions over objection.
fun fact: a Coroner does not necessarily have to be a doctor or a medical professional at all. in some places it's an elected, administrative position. The person who performs autopsies is a Medical Examiner.
Damn America, you scary.
Electing coroners, sheriffs, judges and all that.
But we were smart enough to get rid of those silly wigs in the courtroom.
Fair dinkum. You're leading the race in non-wig wearing, western, English speaking, countries.
I think it's pretty obvious that this joke was never intended to be realistic. Repeat to yourself, it's just a joke, I should really just relax.
at least judges have to meet qualifications to run. at least they do where i live.
It was a looooooooooooooong time ago, but I'm pretty sure my grandpa, a mortician, was his county's coroner for many years.
Did they check the updated autopsy report?
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Don't worry, I'm relaxed. If the joke were actually funny I probably wouldn't have even thought about if it was realistic or not.
Coroners most certainly pronounce people dead when it’s outside of a hospital setting.
Someone needs a drink...
Upvote for being a court reporter AND your name, for fucks sake. 😂
This is an actual, real life exchange between a judge and a pathologist just so people know. I wonder if there's an audio log or something floating around.
IANAL, but I'm assuming that while you're not allowed to ask leading questions during direct examination, you are allowed to not ask leading questions during cross-examination. If I'm understanding u/thisissuchbsffs correctly, I think that's what she was referring to.
Fair enough. That would be terrible cross examination and likely put you and your client in a bad spot, but I’d say you’re right that a prosecutor wouldn’t want to interrupt if a defense attorney was screwing things up that badly.
I'm not sure how non-leading yes/no questions would screw things up, assuming you knew the answer to the yes/no question ahead of time. (And if you don't, then the leading question might actually be worse, in my non-lawyer opinion.) To use your example, I don't see a significant difference (under cross-examination) between the two questions:
>So not “Did you check the victim’s pulse?” but “You didn’t check the victim’s pulse, did you?”
Again, I recognize that you know more than I do and have vastly more experience in the court than I do*, so I admit ahead of time that I might be missing something.
*My experience is limited to unsuccessfully fighting a traffic ticket when I was a young adult and serving on two juries.
Pathologist not Coroner.Coroners don't (normally) do autopsies anymore. They're county elected officials that often don't have any medical degree. Their job is to serve as a liason between the media, medical officials and the police.
Typically speaking, cross examination is an effort to develop testimony that supports your theory of the case or makes specific points you believe are important.
The idea is to ask specific questions that you know the witness will have to answer a particular way. Leading questions allow you to guide the witness where you want to go. Direct questions are open-ended and often allow the witness to explain things in greater detail.
It's all strategy, but I can assure you asking direct questions on cross-examination isn't a good approach. But you're absolutely right--Rule #1 is to be sure not to ask questions if you don't already know how the witness will answer.
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MtPollux t1_ituald6 wrote
The coroner's job isn't to check for signs of life. By the time someone gets to the coroner they've already been pronounced dead by a doctor.