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**Nukemouse**
t1_jbwd60k wrote

I thought there was a computer that could just compute all possible go board states? Was that not the case?

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**Additional_Counter19**
t1_jbweami wrote

Not for Go, there are too many states. They used machine learning and self-play to prune the number of states evaluated.

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**[deleted]**
t1_jbwf01f wrote

[removed]

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**schwah**
t1_jbwpmcd wrote

There are ~10^170 valid board states for Go, and roughly 10^80 atoms in the observable universe. So even with a universe sized computer, you still wouldn't come close to having the compute power for that.

AlphaGo uses neural nets to estimate the utility of board states and a depth limited search to find the best move.

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**SuperNovaEmber**
t1_jbwxgu5 wrote

Wow, that understanding is deeply flawed. In computer systems we have compression and instancing and other tricks. But that's all besides the following point.

Atoms, for instance, how many different types are possible? Lets even ignore isotopes!

It's just like calculating a base. Like a byte can have 256 values. You get 4 bytes(32 bits) together and that's 4.3 billion states or 256^4 (base 256 with 4 bytes) or 2^32 (binary, base 2 with 32 bits). So instead of 256 values we got 118 unique atoms and instead of bytes we got atoms, 10^80 of them.

Simple, right? 118^10^80 combinations possible. Highest exponent first, mind you. Otherwise you only will get 1,658 digits instead of the actual result.... Which is not even remotely close..... Not 80 digits. Not 170 digits. Not 1,658, even.

That's 207188200730612538547439527925963726569493435639287375683771302641055893615162425 digits..... Again. This is not the answer. Just the number of digits in the answer.

Universe gots zero problems computing GO, bro

That's nothing compared to all the possible spaces all the possible atoms could occupy over all extents over space(and)time.

That's a calculation I'll leave up to you downvoters, gl hf!

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**schwah**
t1_jby3w3r wrote

Okay fair enough, it's not as simple as 10^170 > 10^80.

But I don't think your math makes much sense either. You can't just count the number of isotopes - nearly all of the universe is hydrogen and helium. And even with compression, it is going to take a lot more than 1 bit to represent a board state. Memory (at least with todays technology) requires billions of atoms per bit. And that is only memory - the computational substrate is also needed. And obviously we are ignoring some pretty significant engineering challenges of a computer that size, like how to deal with gravitational collapse.

I'll grant that it's potentially *possible* that you could brute force Go with a Universe-o-tron (if you ignore the practical limitations of physics), but it's definitely not a slam dunk like you're implying.

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**SuperNovaEmber**
t1_jbymjai wrote

Oh dear. You miss the most important. Which I did not mention. I figured you know?

Every empty point in space is theoretically capable of storing an atom, give or take.

Most of space is empty. The calculation of all the observable atoms 'brute forced' into all possible voids?

That's really the point, friend. You're talking combinatorics of one thing and then falsely equalizing with simply number of atoms?? Not the possible combinations of those atoms?? Which far exceeds the visible signs of your awakening?? It's not even astronomically close, bud.

In theory, a device around the size of a deck of cards contains more than enough energy to compute to end game.

The "observable" universe operates at an insanely high frequency. Consider the edge of the universe is over 10 orders of magnitude closer than the Planck length, using meters of course.

We're 10 billion times closer to the edge of the universe than the fabric of reality.

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**schwah**
t1_jc0jztm wrote

No, you are confused. Of course the universe has many more potential states than a Go board... A Go board is just a 19x19 grid. But the number of possible states of matter in the universe is not relevant. There is still not nearly enough matter to represent every Go state simultaneously in memory, which is what would be required for an exhaustive search of the game tree.

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**[deleted]**
t1_jbzva06 wrote

[deleted]

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**[deleted]**
t1_jbzyaoz wrote

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