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Comfortable_End5976 t1_j2p1yc6 wrote

i don't think you realise how young 27 is

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canbooo t1_j2paqt7 wrote

so much this. Was not sure if OP is trolling.

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TheOverGrad t1_j2ttvwp wrote

Its def not a troll, it feels old when you are surrounded by 21 and 22 year olds

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Insighteous t1_j2vwdoz wrote

Jump ten years ahead and compare 31, 32 to 37. It is not as weird as it might seem to be.

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answersareallyouneed t1_j2pkmmo wrote

As someone who’s also 27 and been debating whether/not to start a PhD, this is reassuring to hear!

Most of the people I know started their PhD right after undergrad. The grad student I worked with during my undergrad was actually 26 when he graduated with his PhD.

That being said, CS and (& specifically ML) seems to have younger PhD students than other fields.

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NamerNotLiteral t1_j2pwcve wrote

As someone who's 25 in a month and applying to MS programs (and not expecting to get in, not for Fall 23), I expect I'll be 27 or 28 by time I start a PhD.

This's been a huge source of insecurity for me, especially considering so many people I see and interact with in the field are younger than me and yet already 1-2 years ahead of me in the same trajectory.

Empirically, late 20s is still young, but it never feels like that when you're the one in your 20s.

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DEADLYVENOMABUSER t1_j2qh212 wrote

Im 26 and starting my bachelor thesis in 2 weeks. Its all good, nothing positive will come out of worrying about it since you cant change where you at anyway. Try to be happy for the experiences you’ve had and make the best of your current position. We’re not even 30. Bless

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TaXxER t1_j2qsu9i wrote

> Most of the people I know started their PhD right after undergrad.

It depends also on the continent. US based PhD students tend to be younger on average when they start their PhD than PhD students in mainland Europe.

This because in Europe it is often legally required to have completed bachelors + masters before you can start a PhD.

I started my PhD in the Netherlands when I was 26. My experience comparing to other PhD students at the university and in the country this was pretty much an average age to start.

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mtocrat t1_j2rwnzt wrote

In my program, in the US, the majority had a masters degree and 27 would be a normal age to start, but there is a lot of variance.

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Saotik t1_j2rhlw9 wrote

I started an MSc program at 27 (Information Systems, not ML), and was far from the oldest there.

Never let preconceptions about the "right" way of doing things prevent you from finding your own path. You're never too late.

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notyourregularnerd OP t1_j2pedwv wrote

Thanks for the reassuring words. Maybe I'm looking at the other end of the spectrum to feel like an imposter.

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sheeplearning t1_j2qrwbk wrote

Once you get older 2-3 years in life is just a small delta/noise. I have seen so many students drop out of a successful masters with publications instead of continuing to do a PhD because they wanted to finally stop studying. A PhD is really useful even in industry -- its true that a masters will initially get you successful faster but after 10-15 years in the industry the PhD starts to matter for leadership positions.

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ellensen t1_j2qmubn wrote

Exactly, and don't mention that it's 40 years minimum until retirement from 27... That will break them.

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nanotree t1_j2rat5p wrote

Yep. I only just went back to school for my bachelor's at that age. I'm now 4 years in industry after graduation. Took me 6 years to complete my bachelor's.

OP is in a good position if they are working on a PhD. Also, for me, being older than my classmates was a boon for me.

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Ok_Reference_7489 t1_j2qc5jt wrote

I disagree. 27 is old to start a PhD and I think this comment is dismissive. Many people want to start a family in their 30s and buy a house. That be difficult if you are just starting your career.

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ButchOfBlaviken t1_j2qiasp wrote

Sorry, I don't think you know what you're talking about.

In Germany, it's quite common to start your PhD later and continue well into your 30s whilst starting a family etc. This is because a PhD is treated as a real job that pays reasonably well. Also because the education in Germany is quite substantial (5-6 years diplom, 3 years masters, 5-6 years PhD). In contrast to a country like UK, where you can start at 21 and be done by 24, I will always respect and rank a German PhD much much higher.

As a UK academic, having to supervise bratty kids with very little depth of knowledge has become the bane of my existence. I will always pick someone with a bit more experience if I can.

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MaikRequim t1_j2qjw76 wrote

The German Diplom doesn’t exist anymore and a Masters degree is not the next step for someone who completed a Diplom since they are considered equal. Nowadays it’s 3 years for a Bachelor‘s Degree and 2 for a Master’s. PhDs are also usually 3 years+, although I have heard that most people need more than 3 years.

I don’t disagree with the rest of your comment tho.

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ButchOfBlaviken t1_j2qke7x wrote

Agree, the diplom is being phased out. Didn't realise the master's is 2 years now. Do they not do a thesis anymore?

It's very disheartening that a 3 year PhD has become the norm. Unless you're a prodigy, you barely scratch the surface before having to write up and leave.

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TaXxER t1_j2qt0qf wrote

In the Netherlands a masters can be anything between 1 years to 3 years, depending on the field of study.

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notyourregularnerd OP t1_j2qvpba wrote

Masters in top ranked schools in Germany (my personal experience from TU Munich a top German school) in a stem course is very rigorous, students have to take multiple independent research projects to graduate. I'm taking 5 semesters to graduate in CS. Average time to graduate in my program is 6 semesters. However the minimum time you can graduate in is 4 semester (a lot of times very challenging and a rushed way to compete it).

So you're right when you said that MS in Germany takes 3 years to get done with in reality. Although the official time to do it is 2 years.

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ButchOfBlaviken t1_j2r0ldh wrote

So I think you've answered your own question. Starting a PhD at 27 in Germany is quite normal. If you're comparing yourself against UK/US graduates, all I can say is that people who make the hiring decisions definitely know and appreciate the extra experience that brings.

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mtocrat t1_j2rxj5k wrote

Fwiw, Germany has a portion of people who stay enrolled forever because it doesn't cost anything and they may have a somewhat decent job on the side that funds them. That's not the kind of person who pursues a PhD, so I wouldn't put too much stock in averages here.

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notyourregularnerd OP t1_j2s2sdg wrote

Well the department here at TUM has hard deadline of graduation in 7 semesters. And both mean and median graduation time is 6 semesters. I agree that students take on part time jobs as working students in big firms that fund them, but they don't exceed 20 hours. My analysis is that there is lot of uncertain components that you have to navigate to get your degree (independent research credits, thesis), where what constitutes as sufficient work is subjective. If it were only coursework I would also look carefully at a student who took longer time to graduate :)

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mate_classic t1_j2qzc05 wrote

Depends on the setup of the university. Mine had an 7 semester bachelor (5 semesters courses + mandatory internship + thesis) and a 3 semester master (2 semesters courses + thesis). Others have a 6/4 split but most seem to shoot for 10 semesters combined.

Three years for a PhD is really awfully short. I'm now 2,5 years in and if I'd stop now to write everything down it would look terribly half-assed.

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mtocrat t1_j2rx2aq wrote

If I remember correctly, the total time of Bachelor + Masters is supposed to be 5 years, but the split can vary. 3+2 seems typical

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